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Dismount - NS worth victory points?
http://swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=15132
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Author:  swinefeld [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Dismount - NS worth victory points?

Reposting a Q from Darph Nader on Bloomilk, asking if the Nightsister Witch placed by Dismount counts for victory points.

Author:  TimmerB123 [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

swinefeld wrote:
Reposting a Q from Darph Nader on Bloomilk, asking if the Nightsister Witch placed by Dismount counts for victory points.


My guess is no. It is factored into the point cost, similar to reinforcements.

Author:  swinefeld [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

TimmerB123 wrote:
My guess is no. It is factored into the point cost, similar to reinforcements.

That is my guess as well.

Author:  jedispyder [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

The new character is considered to be like Reserves, so you would get victory points for her.

Author:  swinefeld [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

Thanks for the clarification, and for answering it on Bloo as well. :)

Author:  Sithborg [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

For future reference, unless it says that they don't, or are referred to as Reinforcements, they will cost Victory Points.

Author:  swinefeld [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

Sithborg wrote:
For future reference, unless it says that they don't, or are referred to as Reinforcements, they will cost Victory Points.


Good to know, thanks.

Author:  billiv15 [ Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

Yes, both are worth points. We are trying to be consistent with the WotC game here. Every figure that comes in before the game (reinforcements) will always be 0, but those that come in during the game count as points.

Author:  TimmerB123 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

So I was wrong. Unfortunate news for characters with dismount, since I think they will see less use because of this.

Author:  urbanjedi [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

billiv15 wrote:
Yes, both are worth points. We are trying to be consistent with the WotC game here. Every figure that comes in before the game (reinforcements) will always be 0, but those that come in during the game count as points.


Aren't raks brought in considered free?

Author:  swinefeld [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

I'm on the fence with this one.

For 79 pts, you end up with 200hp and a lot of FP/lightning over Felcor, but the Nightsister can easily get wiped off the map in a single activation.

If the NS was free, you get a Felcor with +2 attack, +2 Force, and Lightning 2 for 45pts, then the sister's 60hp, +3 Force and Lightning, but weak otherwise.

Just costing it at 69 points would have been a pretty sweet upgrade to the Felcor. Not complaining since I didn't playtest; it is what it is.

I'm hoping to see more of "X on Y" giving an X when Y is defeated for some remakes of other existing characters. :)

Author:  Sithborg [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

urbanjedi wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
Yes, both are worth points. We are trying to be consistent with the WotC game here. Every figure that comes in before the game (reinforcements) will always be 0, but those that come in during the game count as points.


Aren't raks brought in considered free?


Correct. Billiv's note may be a good guideline, but it isn't 100% accurate.

Author:  billiv15 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

swinefeld wrote:
I'm on the fence with this one.

For 79 pts, you end up with 200hp and a lot of FP/lightning over Felcor, but the Nightsister can easily get wiped off the map in a single activation.


You ignored that you are playing with a 50/50 shot at a 219 pt squad vs your opponent's 200. And while you gave the worst case scenario, I'll give the best. It's also equally likely that the NSW isn't whiped out in one activation, and that she's dropped in the perfect place to do her worst. It's much easier to pull of a good lightning than it is to have to cross the board first.

Come on, you aren't paying 79pts for it. Just like you aren't paying 150 for Kazdan to roll 4 reserves.

Author:  billiv15 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

urbanjedi wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
Yes, both are worth points. We are trying to be consistent with the WotC game here. Every figure that comes in before the game (reinforcements) will always be 0, but those that come in during the game count as points.


Aren't raks brought in considered free?


good point. That's why Sith Alchemy works that way as well.

But I view this more like an immediate reserve than the special case of the rak. Nevertheless, it was worth pointing that one out here.

Author:  swinefeld [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

billiv15 wrote:
swinefeld wrote:
I'm on the fence with this one.

For 79 pts, you end up with 200hp and a lot of FP/lightning over Felcor, but the Nightsister can easily get wiped off the map in a single activation.


You ignored that you are playing with a 50/50 shot at a 219 pt squad vs your opponent's 200. And while you gave the worst case scenario, I'll give the best. It's also equally likely that the NSW isn't whiped out in one activation, and that she's dropped in the perfect place to do her worst. It's much easier to pull of a good lightning than it is to have to cross the board first.

Come on, you aren't paying 79pts for it. Just like you aren't paying 150 for Kazdan to roll 4 reserves.

Sure, those are valid points. I did indeed overlook the save in my comment, and there is potential advantage there in some cases, one being the option to not place the NS if circumstances warrant it.

Like I said, it is what it is. I'm fine with that. I'll be far more concerned about having just lost 62 points than the status of the extra unit. ;)

Author:  TimmerB123 [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

So placing the Sith Witch is optional? There are obvious examples when you would not want to place it.

Does it come in unactivated? Does it matter if NSW on Rancor had already activated?

Author:  billiv15 [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

TimmerB123 wrote:
So placing the Sith Witch is optional? There are obvious examples when you would not want to place it.

Does it come in unactivated? Does it matter if NSW on Rancor had already activated?


Placing it is not option. If you make the save, it must be placed. "Can" denotes ability to.

Like all reserves, it comes in unactivated, regardless of the activation status of the other piece.

Author:  swinefeld [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

billiv15 wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
So placing the Sith Witch is optional? There are obvious examples when you would not want to place it.

Does it come in unactivated? Does it matter if NSW on Rancor had already activated?


Placing it is not option. If you make the save, it must be placed. "Can" denotes ability to.

Like all reserves, it comes in unactivated, regardless of the activation status of the other piece.


Ugh, I hate that "can"= "must" wording stuff.

Seriously, and this is only meant to be a constructive suggestion for future reference - the wording of Dismount could have avoided the ongoing ambiguity of this particular wording quirk by using something more like this:

Dismount: When this character is defeated, make a save of 11. On a success, add a character named... (you get the idea)

Efficiency over style in card text when it doesn't change how something works is desirable, IMO. :)

Also, I think that both the "counts as a reserve" and the non-optional placement if the save is made should be added to a glossary entry for Dismount, or at least stated in the FAQ.

/soapbox

and thanks for the clarifications :)

Author:  Grand Moff Boris [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

Just for clarification, does this mean Obi Force Spirit is worth 8 points via Force Essence?

Author:  billiv15 [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dismount - NS worth victory points?

Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Just for clarification, does this mean Obi Force Spirit is worth 8 points via Force Essence?


correct.

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