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 Post subject: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:49 pm 
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So I was just wondering why zannahs ssm is worded the same as gowk? If the ruling on that has been changed to only effect nonmelee, the ruling which we follow for tourneys and what not, then I'm just curious as to how or why it's still worded the wrong way. Was it a misprint or mistake or was it intentional and if it was intentional is there somthing that I don't know? Just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:03 pm 
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My response to the same question on BlooMilk. I'm too lazy to type it again, sorry. :lol:

Demosthenes wrote:
If you'll notice, Soresu Style Mastery had no errata issued for it, it just says in the DCI Floor Rules that, for sanctioned DCI play, SSM affects only non-melee attacks. The same goes for SWMGPA-sanctioned events now that DCI is no longer involved. Just because it's on a new piece doesn't change how the ability works. Just like with GOWK and Flobi, if you're playing in a tournament, SSM works on non-melee. What rules you decide to follow outside of sanctioned tournaments is up to you and your play group.


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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Well I can honestly say that I don't know what I think of that answer. I guess regardless of weather or not I agree with it. It is what it is and just have to go with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:31 pm 
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How else would they have worked it out? They couldn't have changed the wording and still kept calling it "Soresu Style Mastery" because then you'd have two different definitions of the same ability. If you play in a tournament, it'll be nonmelee, and if you don't like it being able to stop all attacks, then have your playgroup follow the tournament rules for the ability.

I don't understand what you dislike about it. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:37 pm 
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We aren't going to be right up changing the rules and abilities as written by WOTC. There may be some slight tweaking, like unleashed Force Powers, but that's it.

Soresu Style Mastery has the two different ways it works, mainly to appease both sides of the arguement. Trust me, it came up in design, and it was shot down about using the official play errata.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:10 pm 
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Your right when you said, just because an ability is on a different piece doesn't change the way an ability works. What's wrong is the way the ability works and the way it's written. IMO it's more confusing for people trying to learn how to play the game. Of course I can use it the way I want casually just like with any other ability in the game now. I'm not getting into an argument, I just think that anyone can change anything they want casually and so word somthing the way it's going to be played and ruled in tournaments and other competative venues. I have 2 friends in a casual group that won't play competitivly because of so many abilities that don't work the way they are written and were just hurting the game IMO by writing abilities one way and playing them another. I have 2 friends and maybe there are others that are the same and maybe there not but even so that is two less people not playing and that hurts the game. Not from this ability alone but by were certanly not helping any cause.

On another issue. I believe in democracy and we should take a vote on if we should follow dci rules in this now non dci game. It's our game and we can play how we want. So where is our voices in these decisions cause I never had one.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:26 pm 
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you dont have to follow the dci rules, but if you want to paly in sanctioned tournaments that are organized by the SWMPA then those rules are what are used. This includes gencon and regional tourneys. Your are free to play or even make up your own rules as long as the people you play with choose to accept it. Outside of SSM, pretty much all the abiliteis play as Wizards wrote them, or modfied themseleves.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:00 am 
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"So many abilities" that don't work how they're written? Seriously? Like what? Other than SSM, what other abilities? Surely your friends can create a pretty large list, since there are SO many abilities like this.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:58 am 
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Changing the way an ability is worded on one card vs another is just going to make it more confusing for a new player.

I would also be interested in seeing what other abilities you can come up with that have this issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:16 pm 
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i dont know why this is starting to sound like a big argurment when it started with a simple question. i didnt really recieve any answer, just that even though were not dci sanctioned we still follow those rules for tourney play. why and how. did we vote? i didnt vote and i didnt see a thread on here to vote. it doesnt matter anymore it appears that everyone doesnt really understand what im asking and is just going to get mad at me. i had no intention of this turning into some sort of verbal dispute. i had a question and didnt get the answer i was looking for, so fine.

these friends of mine and me just had an "dispute" the other day about all those commander effects that read.
"characters in your squad count as having the same name for purposes of special abilites whose name contains squad" maybe not those exact words but enough for you to know what im talking about. i would normally post the question so that i can show them this is how it works and have it in writing (in a different thread of course). but after the responses that im getting from here im not sure i want to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:40 pm 
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sthlrd2 wrote:
i dont know why this is starting to sound like a big argurment when it started with a simple question. i didnt really recieve any answer, just that even though were not dci sanctioned we still follow those rules for tourney play. why and how. did we vote? i didnt vote and i didnt see a thread on here to vote. it doesnt matter anymore it appears that everyone doesnt really understand what im asking and is just going to get mad at me. i had no intention of this turning into some sort of verbal dispute. i had a question and didnt get the answer i was looking for, so fine.

these friends of mine and me just had an "dispute" the other day about all those commander effects that read.
"characters in your squad count as having the same name for purposes of special abilites whose name contains squad" maybe not those exact words but enough for you to know what im talking about. i would normally post the question so that i can show them this is how it works and have it in writing (in a different thread of course). but after the responses that im getting from here im not sure i want to do that.


You have to look at who was in charge of the DCI updates, and then look at those that stepped up to work stuff out here. Dean was in charge of the DCI updates for the last few years of SWM. And he continued to when it switched to the SWMPG stuff. Of course it wasn't going to change. The people didn't really change, and they really just copied the old tournament rules, because they were working. Don't fix what isn't broke. And keeping stuff as close to WOTC as possible makes it easy for returning players. New players are a rarity, so returning players will be the next best thing. Making the transition as easy as possible is the best thing for the game. So don't expect any errata's to WOTC abilities. I say this as someone who was in support of continuing the split of SSM.

I'm going to be quite frank, making rulings by committee is a terrible idea. The rules are the rules, and there has to be a set way they work. Trust me, I have gotten into a LOT of fights about rulings. Some understandably aren't the most logical, but others are rather simple, but they don't makes sense "themeatically".

Feel free to ask any question you want. I answer without caring about past history. If you have issues understanding the ruling, I can expand. This tends to be why I dislike discussion that isn't about the rule question. This isn't exactly the forum for such discussions. If you feel the need that a change is needed, start a new thread. I don't expect much support, but you are free to start it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:38 pm 
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I hope it didn't sound like I was getting into an argument are being angry at you, I was just reiterating something i've answered several times. To be honest, when I first saw Darth Zannah's card, I thought to myself the very same thing you did. But then after talking to my friend Ted and some other people at Gencon, it made a lot more sense. In reality, keeping SSM's text the same on Zannah is the simplest and least confusing way to rule things.

If people don't play DCI, they can make whatever rules they want for the abilities, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. I do that myself all the time! The only thing that necessitates following a specific ruleset are Regionals and Gencon, so it's not prolific enough to worry about. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ssm, just a question
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:39 pm 
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I doubt anyone here was trying to gang up on you and start an arguement Jake. Ssm was worded the same to keep uniformity. At regionals and gencon the dci now swmgamerswhatever ruling will be in effect. And honestly this game has had 1 errata for skirmish play. I know of board games that can't even make that claim.

Back to the "argument" thing. Reread the post and understand, when someone asked you to name more they are genuinely curious about your findings. I for one dont understand recon as it's written and still have it explained to me lol.

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