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Simultaneous Effects during Set-up
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Author:  Echo [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up

billiv15 wrote:
There are not multiple steps to reinforcements. It is one action. And as with most things, you cannot interrupt an action unless it specifically says you can do so (djem so for example). Set up is a series of actions to a degree, but there is no designated breakdown of the individual acts within it. As it's written, TI happens at the same time as Reinforcements, not before, and not after, which means simultaneous effect rule enters into it.

And as always, the acting player is the person with it. I see no reason within the rules that would suggest the person with the Yam cannot take a Reinforcement CE if they choose to wait until after reinforcements are revealed to name it.

Again, the precedent for this I believe is the ending/beginning override and door resolution. You cannot interrupt the override resolution and even though it's multiple actions, it's considered one step. Choosing reinforcements is also one step - even though there are mutiple actions.

And once reinforcements are chosen, is it not still the set up time that the Yam requires? Of course it is, because you have not moved into a new step in the sequence, and you have not resolved TI. There is nothing the opposing player can do to force you to choose before revealing his/her reinforcements in my opinion.



There are not multiple steps to reinforcements. It is one action. And as with most things, you cannot interrupt an action unless it specifically says you can do so (djem so for example). Set up is a series of actions to a degree, but there is no designated breakdown of the individual acts within it. As it's written, Reinforcements happens at the same time as TI, not before, and not after, which means simultaneous effect rule enters into it.

And as always, the acting player is the person with it. I see no reason within the rules that would suggest the person with Reinforcements cannot wait until after TI is declared to reveal them.

Again, the precedent for this I believe is the ending/beginning override and door resolution. You cannot interrupt the override resolution and even though it's multiple actions, it's considered one step. Choosing reinforcements is also one step - even though there are mutiple actions.

And once TI is chosen, is it not still the set up time that Reinforcements requires? Of course it is, because you have not moved into a new step in the sequence, and you have not resolved Reinforcements. There is nothing the opposing player can do to force you to choose before revealing his/her reinforcements in my opinion.




I'm pretty uncertain as to the differences between my post and yours.






drkjedi35 wrote:
Tell me if I'm wrong here, but if you are trying to get keep the Vong from stealing Ozzels CE, can't you just go with a 12pt Star Destroyer Officer and Admiral Gilad Pellaeon? Pellaeon's CE doesn't happen until AFTER setup, which means Reinforcements AND Telepathic Insight have gone as they are used DURING setup. Then you could just swap out the SDO for Ozzel. The SDO's CE won't help the vong so you're safe there. Of course you are still left with a 16pt Pellaeon in your squad. But it might be worth it to keep the Vong from getting tempo control. Comments?

Roy


Yeah, that's an option. It also means that if you get a matchup where you don't want Ozzel you just choose to switch him to some other <12 point Imperial piece.

Author:  dnemiller [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up

I am pretty sure that the judges will be instructed at Gencon to allow the TI to occur after reinforcments are chosen. It has always seemed clear to me but then again so many rules have seemed clear to me that others read differently.

So for Gencon lets plan on TI after reinforcements have been chosen. Anyone Bill or Daniel have issue with that?

Author:  The_Celestial_Warrior [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up

You know I was thinking more about this:

Step 1: Reveal Squads
Step 2: Reveal Reinforcements (if both players have Reinforcements, players build in secret and reveal simultaneously)
Step 3: Map Roll. Highest rolling player chooses map. Lowest player (Player A) chooses side and sets up or defers.
Step 4: Player A sets up (or B, in the case of a deferral) and any abilities besides Reinforcements that occur during set-up would happen in this step.
Step 5: Player B sets up (or B, in the case of a deferral) and any abilities besides Reinforcements that occur during set-up would happen in this step
Step 6: Resolve any abilities that happen after setup. In the case of Captain Palleon's CE both players resolve simultaneously (See Reinforcements).
Step 7: Resolve door status, if a character is adjacent to any door at this step, that door is considered open.
Step 8: Begin Skirmish

Author:  billiv15 [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up

dnemiller wrote:
I am pretty sure that the judges will be instructed at Gencon to allow the TI to occur after reinforcments are chosen. It has always seemed clear to me but then again so many rules have seemed clear to me that others read differently.

So for Gencon lets plan on TI after reinforcements have been chosen. Anyone Bill or Daniel have issue with that?


Yep, that would be my ruling, and I think it is the correct one. :)

Author:  Echo [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up

dnemiller wrote:
I am pretty sure that the judges will be instructed at Gencon to allow the TI to occur after reinforcments are chosen. It has always seemed clear to me but then again so many rules have seemed clear to me that others read differently.

So for Gencon lets plan on TI after reinforcements have been chosen. Anyone Bill or Daniel have issue with that?


I'm fine with it either way (although I do think that bringing a commander in via Reinforcements to protect them from the Yammosk is kind of neat) as long as something is set in stone beforehand.

Author:  The_Celestial_Warrior [ Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Simultaneous Effects during Set-up

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