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 Post subject: The power Creep thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:46 pm 
Death Star Designers
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I am going to start this so we can pull it out of the Preview 2 thread. So Grambo (or any others), we have two more figs with two more coming tomorrow. What are your thoughts now? Any changes? Better? Worse?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:11 pm 
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Great idea SD. I will say this. I got two of my competitive wishes today. A JWM counter, and a Boba BH (R2) counter. That's most certainly a nice balance.

The question will be can these be abused? Revan I dont think is a worry. Good, yes, great in the right hands, hell yes, good in a kids hands, absolutely not.

Rebel Vangaurd - cheap for missles. could be seen as power creep - but 10 hps and 12 defense make him pretty easy to take down. Sure you can run Lando HoT, but any swarm will fall as soon as they face an opponent who makes saves. So they are well balanced as well in my book. I will certainly like running a couple however.

Also I will add, missles are easy to prevent with ugos :)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:34 am 
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Well I don't really see any 'Power Creep' with Revan or the Vanguard. For all his abilities you are paying 88pts for Revan, a huge chunk of your squad. billiv15 wrote pretty much what I was going to say about the Vanguard - 30+ damage on a 11pt piece isn't bad, but his low Defense & HP make him fragile.

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Last edited by Bail Ohmar on Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:18 am 
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Yeah, the Vanguard is a Glass Cannon. his high damage output is balanced by his stats for his cost.

And well.. Reven at 88pts is well.. a bit of a disapointment to me. He's in a high cost faction to start with (most of the good peices aren't cheep), if he were costed at say.. 70 I could swollow it given his stats and MT.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:11 am 
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I will wait to rejoin this discussion until we see a preview for a main shooter (Boba, etc).


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:02 am 
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Why so?

Besides Boba, I don't see any other main shooters... Maybe Chewbacca.


On another hand, anyone realized that the Ugnuaght tech is holding C-3PO's head?
I'm trying to make a "Hot Potato" scenario with Chewbacca, lol.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:32 am 
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madslaust wrote:
Why so?

Besides Boba, I don't see any other main shooters... Maybe Chewbacca.


Because it is evident that there is at least a 'melee recosting' going on with recent sets. Whatever you call it, I don't care. However, should Boba or Han or Luke or whoever get a bit of a boost, then that is when I will fully claim creep.

The melee recosting argument should fall flat if shooters get a bonus recently as well. I have said it is evident that there was creep since everyone still took the Boba BH, the Lando DS, the Han Scoundrel, the latest and greatest incarnations of these shooters over the crappier old stuff. So, was melee really overcosted in the earlier sets, or were the earlier sets just trash for the most part?

Admittedly, Melee was more overcosted then its shooter counterparts, but I ask you, when was the last time you saw RS Boba or even Ms Undercosted CS Aurra in a competitive scene (and that it did well)?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:42 am 
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emr131 wrote:
Admittedly, Melee was more overcosted then its shooter counterparts, but I ask you, when was the last time you saw RS Boba or even Ms Undercosted CS Aurra in a competitive scene (and that it did well)?


Just about everytime I play 200.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:46 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
emr131 wrote:
Admittedly, Melee was more overcosted then its shooter counterparts, but I ask you, when was the last time you saw RS Boba or even Ms Undercosted CS Aurra in a competitive scene (and that it did well)?


Just about everytime I play 200.


You use RS Boba or CS Aurra? Is this local meta or have you taken this on trips and done well?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:58 am 
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I will admit that the new Boba does scare me. We really dont need anymore Fetts.

Lando DS and Han scoundrel are not evidense of power creep. The old Lando is jsut as playable as ever, but most go with the new one more because he is a follower than because of any attack bonuses. Han sucked until we added Obi FS. Even now i am not totally sold on him. Although i know others have made him work.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:00 am 
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emr131 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
emr131 wrote:
Admittedly, Melee was more overcosted then its shooter counterparts, but I ask you, when was the last time you saw RS Boba or even Ms Undercosted CS Aurra in a competitive scene (and that it did well)?


Just about everytime I play 200.


You use RS Boba or CS Aurra? Is this local meta or have you taken this on trips and done well?


I meant to delete Boba from your quote. I see Aurra all the time in 200. I did see Boba last week though (kid didnt have Boba BH).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:22 am 
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Boba, Enforcer came after the BH version. I wouldn't consider that power creep.

Aurra, JH is a roughly equivalent version of CS Aurra, but just has different uses. I wouldn't consider that power creep either.

Is there power creep? Probably, but it's not so bad that one needs to get worked up over it. It's natural for a game that is constantly changing and evolving, and needs that evolution to stay viable.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:29 am 
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Jedi1972 wrote:
Boba, Enforcer came after the BH version. I wouldn't consider that power creep.


Sure it is, Boba Enforcer was a direct replacement of old Aurra.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:33 am 
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emr131 wrote:

Sure it is, Boba Enforcer was a direct replacement of old Aurra.


Well, that is a good point, but with Jedi Hunter, Aurra still has a place. I wouldn't necessarily say he was a replacement, but a different option.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:34 am 
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emr131 wrote:
Jedi1972 wrote:
Boba, Enforcer came after the BH version. I wouldn't consider that power creep.


Sure it is, Boba Enforcer was a direct replacement of old Aurra.


no its not. He's a good option instead of Aurra, but certainly doesnt complete replace her.

Wow, so now Emr, to not have powercreep, they are not allowed to make figures as good as the ones of the past???

Well that would be a fun game.... Nah, I wont buy the new set, my CS stuff is better anyway.

Boba Enforcer is right on par with Aurra. I use both in different situations and squads.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:42 am 
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I agree that Enforcer and Sing are equals. They work in different builds, but she isnt replaced by him.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:43 am 
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I do not think you can have a set without powercreep. The key is to control it and keep it to a minimum.

If every set was exactly the same people would quit buying them. Why buy a set with 3 Vaders when they are identical?

However, if they are similar in power, but slightly better in some situations then you have powercreep but not too much.

At least that is my opinion.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:48 am 
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Just to satisfy myself - a comparison of Aurra Sing and Boba Fett, Enforcer.

Aurra has +30 HP, +2 Defense.
Same attack and same damage.
Aurra has Careful Shot +4 and Boba has Bounty Hunter +4.
Both have Accurate Shot.
Aurra has Jedi Hunter. Boba has Evade and Net Gun.
Aurra has Lightsaber Sweep. Boba has Mobile Attack and Missiles 30.

They sure look comparable to me, but different.

Now if Boba could use Accurate Shot with Missiles 30, then ...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:54 am 
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ChonChuuk wrote:
However, if they are similar in power, but slightly better in some situations then you have powercreep but not too much.


Technically, what you have described is not powercreep. Lets take for example Vader Cots, Vader IC and Vader U. All will have different rolls and will be better in some squads than the others. So Vader U is similar in power than the others, but slightly better in certain squads. That's not powerceep because the overall power of the game did not change. Just the options you can play with in squad design. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:00 am 
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It is all semantics. :)

The overall power level of the game got better because the gaps were filled in. Now a weakness becomes a strength.

I guess my point was that no matter what, some people are going to complain about powercreep unless every faction has mirrored pieces.

As for me, I like a little powercreep if it is done right.


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