SWMGAMERS.com Forums :: View topic - Need help with the Theed Re-issue

Or, I could give my old/extra copy to some other player who doesn't necessarily do big tournaments, but could still use the extra map.

Personally, I have no problem at all with you making as many tweaks as you consider necessary.

I do think that, in order to avoid confusion, we should have ONLY the updated version added to the Restricted maplist. That first of all encourages people to buy your new release, and it also gives you the artistic freedom that you need to be satisfied with your re-issue. We're not talking about changing LOS or door issues...it's just a few points of movement one way or the other.

ugh, what do to.

@ Nickname- The imfamous green line.

It's the only thing I ever saw when I look at this map, anduntil now. Now I have the "tribute to MC Escher" magic stairs to gripe about now.

I think a couple little tweaks won't hurt it.

And Lobo, yeah your going to want what's on the flip side

I really hope we can get on the restricted list.

Author:	Jedicartographer [ Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Need help with the Theed Re-issue
As you all probably know, Theed is going to probably make it onto the restricted map. I know a lot of you weren't around to get it the first time, or never wound up getting map pack 1 so We've decided to re-issue Theed, with a brand new map on the flip side. Here's the thing. as you all know Theed was a great map for me at the time, but is in serious need of an artistic upgrade. So I've completely restarted the map with beautiful new art, and the same exact floor plan. well.......almost the same floor plan. Today as i was working on the map I came across some really irritating inconsistencies with the stairs and where they end up going. I think I found a couple easy fixes but I want to make sure with the brain trust that It's not going to be a detriment to game play. here is Theed CLassic: great for it's time, but in serious need of a facelift. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Here is where I'm at with the new one Theed 2.0: Still in progress, but looking sweet. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Here is the proposed changes. Just removing some steps in some places, and adding them to others. THe red is where I'd remove existing steps, the yellow is where I'd like to add steps, and the green are where steps from the original map will translate to the new one with no changes. Uploaded with ImageShack.us So Is this going to be a problem?? If someone foresees a big issue obviously I will suck it up and deal without the step inconsistencies. It kills me, how did I never notice this before, after 3 years???

Author:	Disturbed1 [ Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
The only problem I could forsee is then you would have two different versions of the same map. Yes, wotc had that at one point, with the UM version of the Tatooine and Bespin maps, but those were just "Windows count as solid walls" kind of stuff, not difficult terrain placement, which would be more complicated than is reasonable, I think, to expect players to remember where every update is located. Aside from that, and I dont really think its a big issue, I think your fine with updating it. If the map is good enough in its original state for the Restricted list, I dont think stair replacement is going to change that. But then again, what do I know?

Author:	NickName [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
I just assumed it had a weird slope. The thing that actually bugged me about this map is the weird Low Objects line at 13A 7D. We always assumed it was an error and ignored it. I think I may have even removed it on the VASSAL version. No real opinion about whether changing it or keeping it identical is the better choice. Each choice has it's positives and negatives in about equal measure.

Author:	Wedge772 [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
I would say making no gameplay changes at all would be the best call. Just to eliminate confusion over maps, especially if one ends up on Restricted map list and the other doesn't. Of course no reason why both wouldn't make it on the list... Still love that map either way, had some great games on it

Author:	Lord_Ball [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
There's still an inconsistancy as the 1 square "door" at the very bottom on the left hand side would join 2 building of different elevations (1 step off) - this could be fixed by removing the steps leading to the lower building from the "raised platform" at the bottom, and adding steps in front of the other doorway for that building. These are certainly not really big issues to me, but if you're looking to make the corrections... For the revamp I'd suggest changing the interiors a bit more over the original, for example Muunilinst Grand Plaza (CS:UM) and Muunilinst Commerce Plaza (CWB) - they used the same general layout, but were changed enough to make them noticibly different. * editted due to me originally missing a yellowed square

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Author:	LoboStele [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
LOL you picky Cartographers. I understand the desire to have the map seem consistent in height and such, but honestly, I had never noticed it before, and I highly doubt most other people noticed it either. I know it could be annoying to a small few, but I would much rather see the map stay unchanged, so that players wouldn't be forced to buy the new version in order to use it for tournaments. That may turn off some people. On the other hand, if the new one has completely new artwork as well, it will make it easy to tell the two versions apart, and then you shouldn't get the confusion that we sometimes get right now with things like Mos Eisley versions 1 and 2. I'm probably indifferent as to the final solution, as I'm sure I'll purchase the map simply for the new one on the flip side. Plus, Theed is an amazing map overall, so having two copies wouldn't be a bad thing. Or, I could give my old/extra copy to some other player who doesn't necessarily do big tournaments, but could still use the extra map.

Author:	The_Celestial_Warrior [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
LoboStele wrote: Or, I could give my old/extra copy to some other player who doesn't necessarily do big tournaments, but could still use the extra map. Just remember your old Theed Map has a map on the back as well.

Author:	LoboStele [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
Hahaha, true! Darn it. Although, honestly, I don't remember which map that would be, since I usually only played on the Theed side, haha.

Author:	Jedicartographer [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
ugh, what do to. @ Nickname- The imfamous green line. It's the only thing I ever saw when I look at this map, anduntil now. Now I have the "tribute to MC Escher" magic stairs to gripe about now. I think a couple little tweaks won't hurt it. And Lobo, yeah your going to want what's on the flip side I really hope we can get on the restricted list.

Author:	dalsiandon [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
I don't think a few tweaks would be an issue, but then again, the less that is changed is prolly for the better. But if you make it Matt. I'll role dice on it, for sure.

Author:	NickName [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
Well, any tweak means that only one version of the two would be legal in OP just to avoid confusion. It would be similar to the WotC Mos Eisley or Bespin. You just can't allow the confusion. So it's all about the assumption that the map will be on the restricted list and whether or not you want to allow MP1 buyers to use that version in OP.

Author:	thereisnotry [ Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
Personally, I have no problem at all with you making as many tweaks as you consider necessary. I do think that, in order to avoid confusion, we should have ONLY the updated version added to the Restricted maplist. That first of all encourages people to buy your new release, and it also gives you the artistic freedom that you need to be satisfied with your re-issue. We're not talking about changing LOS or door issues...it's just a few points of movement one way or the other.

Author:	LoboStele [ Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
thereisnotry wrote: Personally, I have no problem at all with you making as many tweaks as you consider necessary. I do think that, in order to avoid confusion, we should have ONLY the updated version added to the Restricted maplist. That first of all encourages people to buy your new release, and it also gives you the artistic freedom that you need to be satisfied with your re-issue. We're not talking about changing LOS or door issues...it's just a few points of movement one way or the other. This is true. If it's just swapping around a couple of squares of yellow/green, then it really shouldn't be too difficult for someone to mark up their MP1 version of Theed and still use it for competitive play. We allow that with the Mos Eisley/Bespin maps right now.

Author:	Cerous Mutor [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
Jedicartographer wrote: ugh, what do to. @ Nickname- The imfamous green line. It's the only thing I ever saw when I look at this map, anduntil now. Now I have the "tribute to MC Escher" magic stairs to gripe about now. I think a couple little tweaks won't hurt it. And Lobo, yeah your going to want what's on the flip side I really hope we can get on the restricted list. I dont think the greenline is that bad. Han Solo did have a force point.

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Author:	wannabemexican [ Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
Whatever happens, you should definitely re=release it. I have been sloth to pick up the non-wotc maps, which I regret quite a lot as yours and mapmaker's maps are probably getting harder to get hold of.

Author:	Gurneywars [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with the Theed Re-issue
JC you could just change the name of the map when you make the changes. Like theed courtyard, theed II or something on that order so there is no confusion. Besides it makes me think hey a new map =) .