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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:25 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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NickName wrote:
The Force Is With Us: Your opponent may only activate two characters after your squad is completely activated. Remaining characters may not activate and a new round begins.


If WOTC was still in charge, they would probably only give it to the poor, lowly Empire and Rebel factions, on a 10-point piece. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:06 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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What about correcting (errataing) Gha Nackht to give rapport only to 4+ point droids or restrict mouse droids to an acceptable number (4-5 comes to mine)? I mean, if we could to it to SS Mastery in DCI play we could do this as well.

High activations / tempo control should not go away, but IMHO this Gha+Lobot+Mice feels a bit overpowered. Restricting mice wouldn't hurt any squad which does not use mice for acts, and Dodonna squads could still go to mass acts, but it would feel more balanced.

Just my 2 cents.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:10 pm 
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IMHO I get a little nervous about restricting the numbers of pieces in a team. I'd rather just deal with it then make rules saying you cant have "x" number of mice that is allowed in a build.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:11 pm 
Sith Apprentice
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DaddyCool wrote:
What about correcting (errataing) Gha Nackht to give rapport only to 4+ point droids or restrict mouse droids to an acceptable number (4-5 comes to mine)? I mean, if we could to it to SS Mastery in DCI play we could do this as well.

High activations / tempo control should not go away, but IMHO this Gha+Lobot+Mice feels a bit overpowered. Restricting mice wouldn't hurt any squad which does not use mice for acts, and Dodonna squads could still go to mass acts, but it would feel more balanced.

Just my 2 cents.


This is a good idea, imho.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:49 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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DaddyCool wrote:
What about correcting (errataing) Gha Nackht to give rapport only to 4+ point droids or restrict mouse droids to an acceptable number (4-5 comes to mine)? I mean, if we could to it to SS Mastery in DCI play we could do this as well.

High activations / tempo control should not go away, but IMHO this Gha+Lobot+Mice feels a bit overpowered. Restricting mice wouldn't hurt any squad which does not use mice for acts, and Dodonna squads could still go to mass acts, but it would feel more balanced.

Just my 2 cents.


Problem is, this is another solution that addresses only one symptom and not the underlying problem. Further, like the idea of using strict limits on figure counts, this one actually can be abused more than the current situation. The strict limit ends up being done like this, one guy uses his 10 figures for 5 med hitters and 5 filler/tech. The other guy uses 3 larger hitters, and 7 filler/tech. Guy B, then waits until the end of the round, and he now has 3 heavy hitters, vs his opponents 2-3 medium hitters. Nothing changes in the long run. Not to mention that changing this changes so many other things in terms of balance and value in the game.

The reason against changing Gha is, that the lesser factions can utilize this combo and it's about all they can do to get high acts. Rebels don't need this trick. You take it away, and that takes it away from everyone, meaning no real change, or an even slightly higher advantage to the Rebels and NR than they currently have.

I would not support changing Gha in anyway, nor am I in support of making any real significant rule changes at this time relating to activation control. We need to see how the first couple of V-sets help with the issue before we even think about changing a fundamental rule of the game (and I already explained why this isn't about Dodonna, it isn't about mice - those are symptoms of the core design of the game). At the earliest, I wouldn't even consider a change like this until January 2011. Now convincing me isn't the issue, you have to convince Dean and the majority of the community :)

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:39 pm 
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I'm unconvinced any rules in the floor rules need changing. (I don't consider adding maps or clarifying how V-sets are used changing the rules.)

I'm all for adding alternate formats, but the regionals and champs proved (to me) that the basic competetive play is working well and all that's needed is more--and more competetive--peices for the factions that don't compete that well at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:44 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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NickName wrote:
I'm unconvinced any rules in the floor rules need changing. (I don't consider adding maps or clarifying how V-sets are used changing the rules.)

I'm all for adding alternate formats, but the regionals and champs proved (to me) that the basic competetive play is working well and all that's needed is more--and more competetive--peices for the factions that don't compete that well at this time.


+1 - that's where I'm at as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:56 pm 
The One True Sith Lord
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I kind of feel like the floor rules changes at this point and this is only my opinion, need to be only the maps.... and the rules of integrating the v-set into play officially.

There are some minor things that need attention but in the end not much change.

We have to address the v-sets existence and how they work into offcial play and add to the maps. Other than that I have not seen anything huge imo to add.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:01 pm 
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I fully agree with the above. The game is so nice right now, that other than getting some custom maps and work out eh V set stuff, the rest is in the fig design department.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:26 pm 
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:vader: I'd like to see Tim's Tile-Wars rules in the floor rules. there was some confusion re: what tiles were legal, and how tiles would be oriented in the case that two tiles would create walls between squads.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:03 pm 
Master of the Order
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billiv15 wrote:
NickName wrote:
I'm unconvinced any rules in the floor rules need changing. (I don't consider adding maps or clarifying how V-sets are used changing the rules.)

I'm all for adding alternate formats, but the regionals and champs proved (to me) that the basic competetive play is working well and all that's needed is more--and more competetive--peices for the factions that don't compete that well at this time.


+1 - that's where I'm at as well.


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:04 pm 
Mandalore
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Add in custom maps.

Add in new formats. Drop Draft.

Add Stable Footing to huges, drop Rigid, as it makes huges more playable in the newly added formats, as swinefeld has been saying. Im also for some kind of V-set boost to those, but it wouldnt neccessarily help in the DD/TT/FF formats.

Leave everything else alone, I think.

NickName wrote:
Per round activation cap is a really interesting idea.

The Force Is With Us: Your opponent may only activate two characters after your squad is completely activated. Remaining characters may not activate and a new round begins.


This one I dont like. IU understand the desire to help the lesser factions deal with the huge activation numbers acheivable in the bigger factions, but I think this could completely wipe it out as a method of play.

Lets assume this is on a reasonably cheap, fringe piece. If someone were to play that piece, Darth Bane, and Cade Bane as their entire squad(dumb example, but you get the point, I hope), then it would seriously hamper any squad that wasnt built to something of that effect. Obviously 'just kill it, then wipe them out' comes to mind, but thats not always an option.

Bsp02 wrote:
What I had mentioned to Dennis involved the Semi-Championship game, whenever I made a move to kill Landspeeder and I moved Vader six squares back and behind an ugnaught, which I suppose is a very valid call for stalling, since I had been doing that earlier (I went to strike down Ferus and moved.. ten away to get behind a corner so he couldn't shoot me from a far away), so, no hard feelings there. It was a correct call from Brad I believe.


Im not saying one side was right on this issue or wrong, but Im confused about how the points Brandon makes here can be called 'valid calls for stalling'. Moving a key piece behind an Ugo/corner to avoid being shot doesnt sound to me like grounds for a slow play warning, but rather sound strategic play.

I do understand the difference between that and waiting out an opponent who sits back and waits and waits and waits, takes the opportunistic shot, and then locks the door, as out venue has had a fair number of these in our day, but the above example, as well as the "My Vader has 10hp left, so Im gonna pull him back" seem more like smart playing than slow playing.

Again, not siding one way or another on this, as I didnt even attend the con, Im just wanting a clarification, if someone can or will. Id like a more detailed description, possibly with an example or two lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:21 pm 
Sith Apprentice
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dnemiller wrote:
I kind of feel like the floor rules changes at this point and this is only my opinion, need to be only the maps.... and the rules of integrating the v-set into play officially.

There are some minor things that need attention but in the end not much change.

We have to address the v-sets existence and how they work into offcial play and add to the maps. Other than that I have not seen anything huge imo to add.


Although I am one of the people who's been suggesting some slightly more radical changes than this, I totally get where you're coming from, and yeah, it is hard to feel 100% confident in bigger changes until people get a chance to see how the V-Set plays. I would suggest that the tempo control/mass activation concerns might be worth revisiting in the future, but right now there seems to be a pretty clear consensus in this discussion for "status quo plus new maps," and that strikes me as an entirely reasonable way to go.

And thanks again, Dean, for all the hard work on this.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:52 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
NickName wrote:
I'm unconvinced any rules in the floor rules need changing. (I don't consider adding maps or clarifying how V-sets are used changing the rules.)

I'm all for adding alternate formats, but the regionals and champs proved (to me) that the basic competetive play is working well and all that's needed is more--and more competetive--peices for the factions that don't compete that well at this time.


+1 - that's where I'm at as well.



+1 from me as well, i think they seemd to be very well designed.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:25 am 
Sith Apprentice
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dnemiller wrote:
I kind of feel like the floor rules changes at this point and this is only my opinion, need to be only the maps.... and the rules of integrating the v-set into play officially.

There are some minor things that need attention but in the end not much change.

We have to address the v-sets existence and how they work into offcial play and add to the maps. Other than that I have not seen anything huge imo to add.



Good. That's really the only thing I expect to change about the game...the V-set and new maps being allowed in comp. play.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:34 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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buttcabbge wrote:
Although I am one of the people who's been suggesting some slightly more radical changes than this, I totally get where you're coming from, and yeah, it is hard to feel 100% confident in bigger changes until people get a chance to see how the V-Set plays. I would suggest that the tempo control/mass activation concerns might be worth revisiting in the future, but right now there seems to be a pretty clear consensus in this discussion for "status quo plus new maps," and that strikes me as an entirely reasonable way to go.

And thanks again, Dean, for all the hard work on this.


While this is probably true, as I said on the show last night, don't let it stifle posting new ideas. We keep this stuff in mind and come back to it. Many of the actual changes made last year were ideas from 2-3 years before we implemented them. If nothing else the brainstorming is important just to see a range of ideas that we might not have thought of before.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:53 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
While this is probably true, as I said on the show last night, don't let it stifle posting new ideas. We keep this stuff in mind and come back to it. Many of the actual changes made last year were ideas from 2-3 years before we implemented them. If nothing else the brainstorming is important just to see a range of ideas that we might not have thought of before.


I haven't had a chance to listen to last night's show yet (the cabbge had an actual date with an actual woman last night--go figure), but that's good to hear. My suggestions really were in the spirit of brainstorming, and I was glad that those ideas and ideas like them were talked about seriously (especially tint's activation limit/tempo piece ban idea, which I personally think is the most thought-out and potentially beneficial reform idea on this thread, though it would be a very, very big change to the rules). So yeah, I certainly don't feel stifled--I was glad that people really thought about the issue.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:03 pm 
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buttcabbge wrote:
My suggestions really were in the spirit of brainstorming, and I was glad that those ideas and ideas like them were talked about seriously (especially tint's activation limit/tempo piece ban idea, which I personally think is the most thought-out and potentially beneficial reform idea on this thread, though it would be a very, very big change to the rules). So yeah, I certainly don't feel stifled--I was glad that people really thought about the issue.

Yeah, I didn't actually expect my suggestions to be adopted this time around, but I was hoping that they would at least spark some further thinking on these matters, which they did.

Who knows? Perhaps in 2020, my suggestions will be adopted and we'll never again have to bother with fodder-spinning. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:24 am 
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Ok I'll throw out an idea. I would like to see a melee combined fire option in the rules. If I have 5 ugos around a guy, please let me have 16 attack for 10 dmg.

We could just change the wording on the rule to "characters must have line of sight or be adjacent to the target". If you want the +4 from a melee person they need to be next to the target.

It would be cool if we could work it both ways. Melee getting help from ranged that have los. Ranged getting the +4 from melee adjacent to the target.

Combined fire is not that big a part of the game as it sits right now. Maybe this would open it up a bit more with some new options.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:22 am 
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knightswhosayni wrote:
Ok I'll throw out an idea. I would like to see a melee combined fire option in the rules. If I have 5 ugos around a guy, please let me have 16 attack for 10 dmg.

We could just change the wording on the rule to "characters must have line of sight or be adjacent to the target". If you want the +4 from a melee person they need to be next to the target.

It would be cool if we could work it both ways. Melee getting help from ranged that have los. Ranged getting the +4 from melee adjacent to the target.

Combined fire is not that big a part of the game as it sits right now. Maybe this would open it up a bit more with some new options.


That's a very interesting idea.


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