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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:22 am 
Death Star Designers
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I have always thought that a "combined fire" of sorts for melee would have been cool. As well as adding some more incentive to combine fire with non-melee. these changes change the mechanic of the game and would have a larger inpact then we know (not just on the game but how it is run).
I am not sure if by doing these changes how it would effect the game. It may not be in a positive way. I am good with the current state of combined fire for competative play and dont think it needs changing.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:29 pm 
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Even if you dont go with the Melee Combined Fire, Flanking is something ive thought should have been in the game since I started and have been confused about WotC leaving it out, while having it in DDM.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:40 pm 
Death Star Designers
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I agree Flanking would be a great option, since it is not a rule function though, I think s cheap combat instructor would be best, Fringe Piece: CE: Allies with Melee Gain Flanking, +4 Attack against each adjacent to enemy character with melee.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:54 pm 
Death Star Designers
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as a SA/CE in the VSET that would be wicked awesome but i dont think it would be so great for the floor rules...

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:01 pm 
One of The Ones
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We already have a Flanking type ability: Crowd Fighter. It's just that it's limited to only Shaak Ti characters so far, lol.

Would be good on other melee heavy characters I suppose, but I don't see it as necessary for the Floor Rules. Besides, those are really more 'base rules' of the game, not rules about how tournaments should be run. Remember, there is a bit of a difference there guys.

And as for Melee Combining Fire, or Melee units help give Combining Fire bonuses to non-melee units...yeah, I'd vote no on that anyways. If your Han solo is trying to shoot Vader, who is currently in melee combat with Luke, Han is indeed an excellent shot, but he likely as much chance of hitting Luke as he does of hitting Vader. In other game I've picked up recently, Malifaux, if you try to fire "into melee" like that, you have about a 50/50 chance of hitting either character, which means you often end up hitting your own pieces! This is also somewhat similar to the SW RPG as well, where characters "in melee" actually get a bonus to their defense against other ranged attacks. To some degree, I could see an "overwhelm" type of combining Fire for multiple Melee pieces helping each other, but I certainly don't see Melee helping non-Melee or vice versa. Again though, all of that would be better handled through new pieces, and not through Floor Rule changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:30 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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NickName wrote:
Dump Draft. (Has anyone even heard of anyone playing draft?)

Replace it with Tile Wars.

Add desired custom maps to map list.

Leave everything else ruleswise as is. Ain't broke = don't fix. Just make organizational changes required for V-set inclusion and such.


In the Omaha area, we held a draft event instead of sealed on two separate occasions. The first time was in 2007, and the second time was for the A&E release.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:33 pm 
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thedisaster wrote:
I have always thought that a "combined fire" of sorts for melee would have been cool.


+1
I've mentioned this before in various forums or podcasts. If non-melee can gang up on someone, why can't Melee? Low point shooters can have a use in combining fire. Low point melee fighters can have some use also. And maybe we'd see some variety in low point filler figs.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:43 am 
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LoboStele wrote:
We already have a Flanking type ability: Crowd Fighter. It's just that it's limited to only Shaak Ti characters so far, lol.

Would be good on other melee heavy characters I suppose, but I don't see it as necessary for the Floor Rules. Besides, those are really more 'base rules' of the game, not rules about how tournaments should be run. Remember, there is a bit of a difference there guys.

And as for Melee Combining Fire, or Melee units help give Combining Fire bonuses to non-melee units...yeah, I'd vote no on that anyways. If your Han solo is trying to shoot Vader, who is currently in melee combat with Luke, Han is indeed an excellent shot, but he likely as much chance of hitting Luke as he does of hitting Vader. In other game I've picked up recently, Malifaux, if you try to fire "into melee" like that, you have about a 50/50 chance of hitting either character, which means you often end up hitting your own pieces! This is also somewhat similar to the SW RPG as well, where characters "in melee" actually get a bonus to their defense against other ranged attacks. To some degree, I could see an "overwhelm" type of combining Fire for multiple Melee pieces helping each other, but I certainly don't see Melee helping non-Melee or vice versa. Again though, all of that would be better handled through new pieces, and not through Floor Rule changes.


Crowd fighting gives a bonus to attack for each additional enemy that is currently basing you. Flanking, on the other hand, gives the person who is being flanked (with a pair of enemies on opposing sides of them) -2 to Defense, as they cant focus all their attention on just one enemy, else the other be able to strike. Not really close at all.

As for Melee Combine Fire, I could see it being useful, but should probably be a special ability (like Ranged Flanking is a feat in dnd) opposed to a floor rule.

As for firing into melee, unless SWRPG is different than dnd/ d20modern then firing into melee doesnt give the melee fighter a bonus to defense, it gives the shooter a penalty to attack (unless they have a feat, which Han definitely has). Same outcome for the rpg, but if it became a floor rule, a special ability could be brought out on some shooters to get around it.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:46 pm 
One of The Ones
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Disturbed1 wrote:
As for firing into melee, unless SWRPG is different than dnd/ d20modern then firing into melee doesnt give the melee fighter a bonus to defense, it gives the shooter a penalty to attack (unless they have a feat, which Han definitely has). Same outcome for the rpg, but if it became a floor rule, a special ability could be brought out on some shooters to get around it.


OK, bonus to defense, penalty to attack....virtually the same thing. I know it isn't exactly, but the point is still the same. I definitley do not think Melee pieces should benefit Non-Melee pieces in terms of combining fire, or vice versa.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Agreed.

I do think a Czerka Scientist type piece that granted a Flanking type effect to melee pieces would be a great great addition.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:10 pm 
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I think flanking like there is in the RPG would be cool but not non-melee helping melee.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:07 pm 
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I'd agree that some sort of flanking dynamic added to the game could be very cool. Actually, Swarm is basically a flanking effect--it's just never been put on a good enough unit to matter.

That said, the addition of flanking strikes me as something that should be done through the design of new v-set minis rather than through alterations to the floor rules (as most people have been suggesting here).


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:14 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Has the issue of adjacency of diagonal squares separated by twin "cut" walls been addressed? I thought that the current ruling was that characters could move between them but not attack between them because the walls went to the corners of the squares and blocked LOS.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:53 am 
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You are correct about how they work. That's what the rules for beveled corners say in the rulebook, though it was interpreted differently for a decent portion of the game's life. Personally, I prefer it as is (which is unlikely to be a big surprise :lol: ) because it's dead simple. No getting out the LOS string and a magifying glass to figure it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:09 pm 
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NickName wrote:
You are correct about how they work. That's what the rules for beveled corners say in the rulebook, though it was interpreted differently for a decent portion of the game's life. Personally, I prefer it as is (which is unlikely to be a big surprise :lol: ) because it's dead simple. No getting out the LOS string and a magifying glass to figure it out.

I agree with you, NN: simpler is better when it comes to LOS).

But I think he was asking about whether or not the two squares separated by double-bevelled corners are considered adjacent to each other. You don't really have to worry about pulling out a string and magnifying glass to draw a LOS when 2 squares are immediately beside each other, so the question being asked is whether a character on one of those squares can attack a character in the other square...and (if I'm understanding him correctly) he thinks you should be able to make the attack.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:07 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Yes, that is where I was going. Seems odd that you can move to a square but not attack it. I was thinking an errata like:

Squares which are adjacent during the movement phase are also considered adjacent for the targeting and attack phases.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Just adding one more piece of info to the Ranged Flanking Support, is that in DnD, its generally limited to the ranged person being within 30ft (6 sqs).

I will still understand if it isnt liked or skipped over, as I agree it could be tricky tp implement, I just realized I had left that part off, which would make a big difference in how good it could be in this game.

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Also t4 for override and a cheeky flame.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:54 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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One house rule I have played with might be worth considering.

Door damage, all doors have DR 20, Def 8 and 10 HP per inch.

It makes door control which is under costed less useful, but not usless. Also lightsabers, penitration, and Damage 30, start to be worth their points.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:08 pm 
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How do you gauge how many inches each door are?

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:50 pm 
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I assume you look at how many squares the door takes up, since we squares on our maps are 1x1 inch.


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