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 Post subject: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:59 am 
The One True Sith Lord
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Ok So I will be updating the Floor Rules soon. This is your chance for input. Please dont be offended if I dont take your input but I promise I will read it and consider it for what it can possibly add or take from the game.

On the Agenda (so you can see what I am thinking about them):

We must include JC and Mapmakers custom maps at this point and this is for a couple of reasons.

1. They are now easier to get than the Wotc Maps. Plus quite honestly a better deal.

2. They are generally even more balanced.

3. We must create demand for these map packs if we want these guys to continue to produce maps for us. Like it or not that is the truth and the hard facts of the economics. We must make it worth their while.

So if you have a custom map suggestion make it here. IF you have a rules suggestion, make it here. Understand the floor rules are about the fairness of the game. My job is to keep the playing field as level as possible so that a winner is determined thru skill not luck or abuse. So understand that after 4 years I have a pretty good grasp of what is fair. So please dont be offended if I dont like your idea or if I dont incorporate it for a year or two. Ask others I have taken their ideas and tweaked them where they have shown up like 2 years later. This is going to be a very important Floor Rules update so please give it some serious thought before getting upset or not liking what I am doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:20 am 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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I think one think we need to do is bump the old map thread and add the new maps to that thread. We might want to just start a whole new thread with all the maps.

I Know this might not be the greatest Idea but with the vset cards coming and JC map packs. Would it be worth creating a Gamers store where you could order JC Maps, Vset Cards,and some kind of tournament kit for local stores. Then we would have a link to our friends(Mapmaker,Free stuff and anything else.

To be honest it could be as simple as a web page link(like the gamers downloards) telling people what they can get and have a link to paypal on each item.


Last edited by jonnyb815 on Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:57 am 
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Putting back in Fett Bounty Hunter as legal for Tile Wars and instead making Disintegration the exclusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:06 am 
Master of the Order
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Huges gain Stable Footing and lose Rigid.

Add formats: Tile Wars, Triple-Threat, Fantastic Four

Boba BH allowed in DD/TT/FF (minus big-D)

A big YES to adding JC/AG7/MM maps (especially those that are still available to purchase)


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:09 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Thanks for making this thread, Dean. And first of all, I want to thank you for the work you've done making these floor rules, because they had a huge and positive effect at Gencon this year! I (and many others) was glad to see that the meta was so wide open this year, and in many ways, we have the Floor Rules (and therefore you) to thank for that.

Now on to the upcoming update.

Maps I'd like to suggest for inclusion in the Restricted Maplist are the following:
-Theed (JC)--one of the most enjoyable maps in the game, and very fair.
-Offworld Shipping Center (MM)--a bit more shooty, but it still leaves plenty of options for safe melee advancement.
-Swamp Caves (MM)--it has a balanced and creative layout, and a lack of doors helps to limit override abuse.
-Smuggler's Base (AG7)--it has been a favorite for years.

I'd like to suggest a whole pile of the custom maps (actually, almost all the custom maps by JC/AG7 and MM) for the Standard Maplist, but in the interest of brevity I'll limit myself to just a few.
-Any of the above that for some reason don't get chosen for the Restricted list.
-Exodus-Class Heavy Courier (MM)
-Mustafar (AG7)
-Star Forge (JC)
-Nar Shaddaa (AG7)

Of course, the discussions on these boards from a few months ago are also worth considering:
http://swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=183&t=8976
http://swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=183&t=9016
However, as Jonny said, it would be helpful to start a separate thread and have JC/AG7 and MM list all their maps (incl the new ones) in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:39 am 
Master of the Order
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thereisnotry wrote:
-Smuggler's Base (AG7)--it has been a favorite for years.


Is this one easily available anywhere? I don't know that it's every been sold, only been printable via Cafe Press or something like that.

I think anything on the Restricted list MUST be something that is easily obtained by anyone, and relatively affordable. It's not affordable to pay $20 to cafe press for a map when MM/JC sell them for roughly $7 per map.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:22 pm 
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LoboStele wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
-Smuggler's Base (AG7)--it has been a favorite for years.


Is this one easily available anywhere? I don't know that it's every been sold, only been printable via Cafe Press or something like that.

I think anything on the Restricted list MUST be something that is easily obtained by anyone, and relatively affordable. It's not affordable to pay $20 to cafe press for a map when MM/JC sell them for roughly $7 per map.



Agreed. I think Smuggler's Base is one of the few (if only) map(s) I don't own for that reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:30 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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LoboStele wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
-Smuggler's Base (AG7)--it has been a favorite for years.


Is this one easily available anywhere? I don't know that it's every been sold, only been printable via Cafe Press or something like that.

I think anything on the Restricted list MUST be something that is easily obtained by anyone, and relatively affordable. It's not affordable to pay $20 to cafe press for a map when MM/JC sell them for roughly $7 per map.

Agreed, but there has been talk that perhaps Smuggler's Base might be included when JC re-vamps his Theed map (or something like that). All I know is that there HAS been talk about including Smuggler's Base in one of the upcoming publications. If so, then I'd certainly want to include that map in the Restricted Maplist. If it doesn't turn out that way, then I'd have to agree with you, that we can't include it.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:42 pm 
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With the V-Sets I think there should be noted some room for flexibility in terms of which mini is used.

For example with the OR Diplomat, it's using a Mon Cal Medic, maybe something stating that while it is the preferred mini a Mon Cal Merc (the one from RS) will work just as well if the medic isn't available. Obviously this would need to be cleaned up a bit but I think you understand the idea.

ANd as for the suggestion above about huges gaining "Stable Footing" I like that but I think it should be tempered, maybe it should be for vehicles with "Mounted Weapon" instead. That would help even more than just a few huges, but also AT-RT's, but things like the Hoth Trooper with Repeating blaster, still wouldn't benefit.

But even with my tweak I'm not sold on the idea fully

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:51 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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I dont know if Darth Ted does this anymore but he use to sell all most any of the custom maps (not JC or Mapmaker) for 7 dollars each. So I really dont see a problem getting that map. Boba52 has a plotter,I have access to a plotter in about a week.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:02 am 
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swinefeld wrote:
Huges gain Stable Footing and lose Rigid.

A big YES to adding JC/AG7/MM maps (especially those that are still available to purchase)


+1
+1 from Mark (Philnlil)
+1 from Brad (my son)
+1 from Owen (Mark's son)

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:13 am 
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Dump Draft. (Has anyone even heard of anyone playing draft?)

Replace it with Tile Wars.

Add desired custom maps to map list.

Leave everything else ruleswise as is. Ain't broke = don't fix. Just make organizational changes required for V-set inclusion and such.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:22 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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NickName wrote:
Dump Draft. (Has anyone even heard of anyone playing draft?)

Replace it with Tile Wars.

Add desired custom maps to map list.

Leave everything else ruleswise as is. Ain't broke = don't fix. Just make organizational changes required for V-set inclusion and such.


+Stable Footing For Huges :)

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:23 am 
Death Star Designers
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NickName wrote:
Dump Draft. (Has anyone even heard of anyone playing draft?)

Replace it with Tile Wars.

Add desired custom maps to map list.

Leave everything else ruleswise as is. Ain't broke = don't fix. Just make organizational changes required for V-set inclusion and such.



Funny thing Draft SW-CCG did Draft alot and had thought about doing Draft for the V-sets. I have never played it before but have been toying around with it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:43 am 
Master of the Order
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billiv15 wrote:
NickName wrote:
Dump Draft. (Has anyone even heard of anyone playing draft?)

Replace it with Tile Wars.

Add desired custom maps to map list.

Leave everything else ruleswise as is. Ain't broke = don't fix. Just make organizational changes required for V-set inclusion and such.


+Stable Footing For Huges :)


I also agree with this one. The only other Huges seeing a lot of play have Flight anyways. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:47 am 
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*I'm definitely into adding JC and Mapmaker maps to both the Restricted and Standard lists. To me, Theed is a no-brainer for the Restricted list--it's on the (very) short list for the best competitive map ever made. I haven't play-tested the other ones enough to have as definitive an opinion, but I wouldn't bat an eye at any of them being included.

*If the Standard Map List is going to continue to be used for tournaments as big as Jedi Challenge, I'd suggest that you consider taking one or two of the most abuseable maps (the "hardboard" ROTS starter map, most obviously) off the Standard Map list. Especially if other maps are being added.

*It might be too big a change too soon, but I'd at least like to see some discussion about whether we ought to do some sort of activation limit (whether that be a limit on the number of figs in a squad, or a limit on how many of a particular unit can be used). I say this realizing that the V-Set might change the meta in some way I obviously can't anticipate, and also realizing that a change this big probably shouldn't be done without a lot of play-testing. But I will say that, for me, a game that doesn't have 20 mouse droids and 10 rodians on the board is generally more exciting (and a whole lot more "Star Warsy") than a game that does. And I don't intend that as a slam at anyone, btw--I've run plenty of activation control armies in my time. But the singular importance of mass-activations is the one thing about the (otherwise quite varied) current meta that I'm not crazy about.

*Overall, I think the current floor rules are great, and have made the current tourney scene a lot more interesting to play in since I started testing the competitive waters a few years ago. And thanks, Dean, for taking the lead on making them as good as they are. Honestly, if nothing changed other than the map list, I'd be perfectly happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:50 am 
Master of the Order
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billiv15 wrote:
NickName wrote:
Dump Draft. (Has anyone even heard of anyone playing draft?)

Replace it with Tile Wars.

Add desired custom maps to map list.

Leave everything else ruleswise as is. Ain't broke = don't fix. Just make organizational changes required for V-set inclusion and such.


+Stable Footing For Huges :)

+1 Billiv15 :P


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:05 pm 
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I would like to see a section that clarifies strategic play vs. slow play. I have heard several complaints from several different people about how the Championship was run regarding that issue. For one example, a player who intended to use a Lancer to strafe and then return to the room it started, and then lock the door closed with his R7 was apparently told he MUST leave his piece in a position that caused him to lose the game, and was given a "warning" for not playing piss-poor strategy tactics.

Granted I wasn't there and I didn't see what happened, so I am not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong. That said, I did hear several people make similar complaints about it throughout the tournament. So I am ASKING for a clarification section to be included. If people are going to be warned because they decided to swap their Lord Vader or Yobuck with a Rodian Brute and then wait 2-3 rounds before bringing those pieces back out when it is strategically viable to do so, then that needs to be made clear in whatever floor rules tournament document is written for the game going forward.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
I would like to see a section that clarifies strategic play vs. slow play. I have heard several complaints from several different people about how the Championship was run regarding that issue. For one example, a player who intended to use a Lancer to strafe and then return to the room it started, and then lock the door closed with his R7 was apparently told he MUST leave his piece in a position that caused him to lose the game, and was given a "warning" for not playing piss-poor strategy tactics.

Granted I wasn't there and I didn't see what happened, so I am not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong. That said, I did hear several people make similar complaints about it throughout the tournament. So I am ASKING for a clarification section to be included. If people are going to be warned because they decided to swap their Lord Vader or Yobuck with a Rodian Brute and then wait 2-3 rounds before bringing those pieces back out when it is strategically viable to do so, then that needs to be made clear in whatever floor rules tournament document is written for the game going forward.


Nope, not what happened. The guy was waiting until the very end of the game to do this, while his opponent had spent all game in gambit. At the end, he said to me, "I was intending to do an attack run near the end of time". He had multiple opportunities to make his attack run, then lock the door during the game. He waited until the end of round 6 with 10 minutes left to make his first move of the game. He was purposefully waiting until his opponent could not respond to his run at all, and trying to win on points from the very beginning. That is the definition of slow play. I was called there at about 30 minutes into the game by his opponent. He had not left his starting area. They both had lancer and San hill, and his opponent was outactivated. They were in round 3 at the time. I saw the set up, warned both players, and Brad and I watched the game for the remainder of time (one of us at least anyway). His opponent tried several times to unlock a door, in which he immediately responded by locking it shut. He was not in gambit or even near it the entire time. I actually ended up awarding a full win to his opponent, and felt entirely justified when he made the comment I listed above, confirming exactly what I had thought I was seeing.

No one was warned because of solid tactics, they were warned for not attempting to play their game to completion.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules Update Coming! - Your chance for input
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:13 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
+Stable Footing For Huges :)


-1 Stable Footing for Huges :lol:

The design team now has the opportunity to resolve this with a cheap fringe Pathfinder character that does exactly that. Much better solution.

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