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 Post subject: Outside the Box #5: Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:02 pm 
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Outside the Box #1: Biggs Darklighter
Outside the Box #2: Darth Vader, Champion of the Sith
Outside the Box #3: Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master
Outside the Box #4: Darth Malak
Outside the Box #5: Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice
Outside the Box #6: Obi-Wan on Boga
Outside the Box #7: Bastila Shan
Outside the Box #8: Corran Horn

Mon Calamari Medic's Warning: The following post may increase the chances of Sith Rage in certain readers. You should discontinue use of Outside the Box #5 if you are headstrong, whiny, or prone to Impulsive Sweeping. Visit your local Medical Droid if you notice your eyes turning yellow as this could be the sign of a rare but serious side effect of the Dark Side of the Force.

So this week's outside the box challenge is brought to you by Roulex (and the letter A): Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice. He's a solid piece for his cost, to be sure. His main weakness seems to be that he keeps you from putting any of the better Vaders into your squad. Also, he barely benefits from any commander effects (Thrawn swap, Palpatine's Force points, Tarkin's activations, Chagrian Mercenary Commander, and Rodian Black Sun Vigo). At 39 points, he seems more like a piece you add as support in an already decent squad rather than a piece to build your squad around.

Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice [39]
HP: 120
Defense: 19
Attack: +13
Damage: 20
----
Unique
Double Attack
Loner
Melee Attack
----
Force 4
Force Grip
Lightsaber Riposte
Sith Rage

The Outside the Box Challenge:
Try to come up with a 100 point squad that could take on Bane and 6 Ugnaughts. A 150 point squad that could take on Black and Blue (LV or JH). And a 200 point squad that could be decent at a tournament. For mine, I'm also trying to make squads that haven't been posted on swshoebox yet. I also did my best to stay away from typical B&B or trooper swarm setups, as those don't seem particularly creative.

Here are mine:

-100 points vs. Bane & 6 Ugnaughts-
"Dark Coupling"
Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice [39]
Aurra Sing [37]
Gonk Power Droid [12]
Probe Droid [8]
Ugnaught Demolitionist [3]
(99 pts. - 5 activations)

Bane outactivates this squad, so a good player should be able to get a Sith Rage Lightsaber Assault in on Anakin before he can do anything. But if Anakin wins initiative with the Probe Droid, he can put 60 damage on Bane with a Sith Rage Double Attack. Plus 2 Ripostes, Anakin can put 100 damage on Bane by himself. For the other 100 damage, you have the very efficient combo of Aurra with a Gonk. I feel kind of dirty using a power piece like Aurra in an Outside the Box post... But this squad should certainly cream Bane. At least I didn't use Thrawn...yet.

-150 points vs. Black & Blue-
"Thrawn's Offensive"
Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice [39]
Grand Admiral Thrawn [37]
Mistryl Shadow Guard [24]
Mas Amedda [8]
Probe Droid [8]
Scout Trooper x3 [24]
Duros Explorer [7]
Ugnaught Demolitionist [3]
(150 pts. 10 activations)

So for this squad I wanted to try to use Thrawn more offensively. With a boosted Mistryl bodyguard, you can run him into the mix of things and really slow down Lord Vader with Ysalamiri. The Duros might be able to Spotter for Thrawn or a Scout Trooper once or twice (probably once). The Scout Troopers have Stealth so they have an upper hand against opposing Stormtroopers. Anakin can Force Grip Stormtroopers and work with the Mistryl to take down the opposing Vader inside the bubble. Obviously Vader JH will make mincemeat of Anakin, even without Force powers, but Lord Vader could have some trouble if he can't Rage or Assault or anything. With careful Thrawn placement, you might be able to set it up so Anakin can Riposte, but Vader's still in the bubble.

-200 pts. Tournament Quality-
"The Commanders and the Apprentice"
Emperor Palpatine, Sith Lord [62]
Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice [39]
Grand Admiral Thrawn [37]
Imperial Governer Tarkin [22]
Clone Commander Cody [20]
Mas Amedda [8]
Probe Droid [8]
Ugnaught Demolitionist [3]
(200 pts. - 8 activations)

It's Anakin and a whole bunch of commanders. With this, I would run Anakin out first and try to get some damage in with him Loner-style. When he gets in trouble, you can swap in Quadruple Attacking, Betrayal-inducing Palpatine. Cody with Double Attack, Accurate Shot and Sniper is a nice ranged threat. Double Attacking Thrawn is good for taking out scrubs. Doctrine of Fear might help if the opposing heavy hitters make it to your commanders.

Please take the challenge and post your squads! It's all about exercising your squad-building creativity. You might have already used Anakin SA in a squad before, but try to think of a new way to use him, and you might end up coming up with something you like.

What I learned this week:
I've never thought of using Clone Commander Cody with Imperial Governer Tarkin before. +10 Attack isn't great, but Double Attack with Accurate Shot and Sniper is definitely nice. Maybe I could use him with Baron Fel and some Stormtroopers to boost his Attack...

I welcome any feedback on the Outside the Box posts or my squads. I'm also taking suggestions for next time.

Here are some other characters I'm considering if you just want to vote for one of these:
[Votes as of 10/26 10:04 am PST]
[3 Votes] Obi-Wan on Boga (Republic)
[2 Votes] Bastila Shan (Old Republic)
[1 Vote] Corran Horn (New Republic)
[1 Vote] Kyle Katarn (New Republic)
[1 Vote] Warmaster Tsavong Lah (Yuuzhan Vong)
[1 Vote] Zam Wesell (Fringe)
[0 Votes for the rest, so far]
Aayla Secura (Republic)
Ki-Adi-Mundi (Republic)
Mace Windu, Jedi Master (Republic)
Asajj Ventress (Separatists)
Grievous [anything but Supreme Commander] (Separatists)
Darth Maul on Speeder (Separatists)
Jabba the Hutt (Fringe)
Guri (Fringe)
HK-47 (Fringe)
Anyone else you want to try to make competitive.


Last edited by shinja on Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:03 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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I always enjoy reading these reviews. Especially the 'beat Bane and Ugnaughts' team, as that one's always good for a chuckle. (hey, it's Bane in 100, they have their work cut out for them)

As you're taking requests, I'd like to see your takes on:

Obi on Boga
Zam Wesell
Warmaster Lah
Bastila Shan

as those are figs I actually have, and have never played.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:04 pm 
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I really like the 150 point Thrawns Offensive squad, a breath of fresh air you might say.

I would suggest using Obi on Boga for the next one, he's a decent character that just never sees play.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:20 pm 
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I don't think any Obi sees play nowadays. Not any republic one, anyway.



I like the squads shinja. If I had sith ani, I would totally try one of the squads. Probably the first one, because I love to abuse gonks with Aurra. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:59 pm 
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Baby B&B can handle Bane fairly easily.

As for 150, try out Boris' Tarkin Hill squad.

And for 200 I would go with this

Thrawn/Mas 45
Ani SA 39
Storm Commando x2 34
Grand Moff Tarkin 11
Emperor Palpatine 40
Stormtrooper x5 25
Uggie x2 5

Rerolls with all followers, SC's give lots of damage output and Ani gives you a semi beatstick.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:33 pm 
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SirStevee wrote:
I don't think any Obi sees play nowadays. Not any republic one, anyway.



I like the squads shinja. If I had sith ani, I would totally try one of the squads. Probably the first one, because I love to abuse gonks with Aurra. :twisted:


Obi Wan Jedi Spirit is part of one of the rebel meta squads involving han scoundrel.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:45 am 
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vs 100 pt Bane

Bodyguard Gamble
Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice
Twi'lek bodyguard x6

This does pretty much rely on you hitting every attack with Anakin (not likely) and winning 3rd 'combat' initiative. So really I can't see this working. You spend your FP on 2 Riposte and 2 Sith Rage.

or

Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice 39
Admiral Piett 20
Elite Stormtrooper 11
Elite Stormtrooper 11
Elite Stormtrooper 11
Stormtrooper 5
Ugnaught Demolitionist 3

Keep your distance and blast away. Anakin is a pawn that should get off one riposte and one sith Rage double attack, using Loner he hits on 3's, so that should be 80 damage. with lucky Initiative you could get an extra Double. If he wins Initiative Bane has to choose to take out Anakin to stop another Raged Double, or open himself up to Opportunist Attacks. Like every game, map and Initiative will dictate a lot, as will Banes choice of targets, if he chooses to go after Piett & the troops first.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:46 am 
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Baby B&B is the answer to the question

ThrawnMas 45
Anakin 39

STx3

or

ST x2
Uggies x2


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:41 am 
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For 200pts how about a little A&A:
Anakin SA
Vader's Apprentice
Emperor Palps
Thrawn
Mas
x2 stormies
x3 tuskens
x2 ugs

I will play with this build after we get the rest of FU, but its standard B&B with a bit more punch. I will work on a non-Thrawn build with the rest of FU.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:42 am 
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I liked Boris's Thrawn/Tarkin squad he posted a little while back, that used Anakin.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:55 pm 
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Wow, a lot of responses.

omnimpotent wrote:
I always enjoy reading these reviews. Especially the 'beat Bane and Ugnaughts' team, as that one's always good for a chuckle. (hey, it's Bane in 100, they have their work cut out for them)


Honestly, I don't think it's too hard to build a hate squad that can beat Bane in 100 (well, it can be hard if you're purposely using sub-optimal pieces). The problem is that a squad designed to beat Bane will most often lose to other good 100 point squads. But if you build a squad to take out one of those other good 100 point squads, Bane can probably beat it. It's a nice rock-paper-scissors set up, and I like 100 points that way. Because Bane is pretty much one of the three options all by himself (I'd say he's probably "rock"), he's considered the gatekeeper for 100 pts, which is why the challenge is specifically to beat him.

adder wrote:
I really like the 150 point Thrawns Offensive squad, a breath of fresh air you might say.


Thanks. It seems like people use Thrawn's Master Tactician, swap, and +3 Attack, +3 Defense whenever they use him. I tried to build around his other crazy ability, Ysalamiri.

thejumpingflea wrote:
Baby B&B can handle Bane fairly easily.

As for 150, try out Boris' Tarkin Hill squad.

And for 200 I would go with this

Thrawn/Mas 45
Ani SA 39
Storm Commando x2 34
Grand Moff Tarkin 11
Emperor Palpatine 40
Stormtrooper x5 25
Uggie x2 5

Rerolls with all followers, SC's give lots of damage output and Ani gives you a semi beatstick.


Definitely some great squads. Anakin SA can really be competitive in the right builds. I tried to stay away from using him in ways I'd seen him used before, because that wouldn't really do much to help my squad-building creativity. I'm wondering now, though, if I can still make decent squads, or if I'm too stuck on coming up with new uses for pieces instead of sticking with the tried-and-true ones. Hmm...

Bail Ohmar wrote:
vs 100 pt Bane

Bodyguard Gamble
Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice
Twi'lek bodyguard x6

This does pretty much rely on you hitting every attack with Anakin (not likely) and winning 3rd 'combat' initiative. So really I can't see this working. You spend your FP on 2 Riposte and 2 Sith Rage.

or

Anakin Skywalker, Sith Apprentice 39
Admiral Piett 20
Elite Stormtrooper 11
Elite Stormtrooper 11
Elite Stormtrooper 11
Stormtrooper 5
Ugnaught Demolitionist 3

Keep your distance and blast away. Anakin is a pawn that should get off one riposte and one sith Rage double attack, using Loner he hits on 3's, so that should be 80 damage. with lucky Initiative you could get an extra Double. If he wins Initiative Bane has to choose to take out Anakin to stop another Raged Double, or open himself up to Opportunist Attacks. Like every game, map and Initiative will dictate a lot, as will Banes choice of targets, if he chooses to go after Piett & the troops first.


I like both of these! With the first one, bodyguards are super-useful in 100 points (especially against Bane). It's unfortunate that you'll lose Loner with Anakin, so you might not hit as often. It'll take Bane 9 hits to kill Anakin. That's an Assault, 3 rounds of Double Attacks, and one more attack. Anakin needs to hit Bane 10 times--4 Ripostes and 3 Double Attacks. That's about all you'll have in terms of attacks, so you're right, you'll have to hit with every one. Definitely a gamble, like you said. Whatever you do, don't try to attack Bane with the Bodyguards or he'll Sweep and you'll lose any chance you had of winning.

The second one is probably better. Recon is also super-useful in 100 points. This squad might actually perform well against other 100 point threats too.

Sithdragon13 wrote:
For 200pts how about a little A&A:
Anakin SA
Vader's Apprentice
Emperor Palps
Thrawn
Mas
x2 stormies
x3 tuskens
x2 ugs

I will play with this build after we get the rest of FU, but its standard B&B with a bit more punch. I will work on a non-Thrawn build with the rest of FU.


I like the idea of using the Apprentices together. It seems like a lot of times, two mid-range beatsticks are better than one high-range beatstick. Anakin has plenty of Force Points for how long he tends to live, so you're free to use all of Palpatine's Force Batteryness for Vader's Apprentice. And Anakin can be enough of a distraction to buy you the time to save up for the Apprentice's big Force powers. Looks good.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:59 pm 
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I updated the list of possibilities for the next Outside the Box in the original post (with a tally of votes). It looks like people want several different characters to be featured.

Is anyone interested in me doing this more than once a week, or is that overkill? I don't want to flood the board, but it seems like most responses to the Outside the Box posts happen in the first 2 days.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:23 pm 
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shinja wrote:
I updated the list of possibilities for the next Outside the Box in the original post (with a tally of votes). It looks like people want several different characters to be featured.

Is anyone interested in me doing this more than once a week, or is that overkill? I don't want to flood the board, but it seems like most responses to the Outside the Box posts happen in the first 2 days.


Certainly not overkill. I love these threads.

Gotta go with Bastila next btw.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:02 pm 
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I agree it's not overkill..they're a blast to read. My vote is for Obi though!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:14 am 
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Sithdragon13 wrote:
For 200pts how about a little A&A:
Anakin SA
Vader's Apprentice
Emperor Palps
Thrawn
Mas
x2 stormies
x3 tuskens
x2 ugs

I will play with this build after we get the rest of FU, but its standard B&B with a bit more punch. I will work on a non-Thrawn build with the rest of FU.


This was my thought, but I was going for the 100 pt. vs Bane.

Ani, SA
VA, Unleashed
Twi'Lek bodyguard
Uggie

Let Ani engage Bane with Loner and let VA gather Force. then bring in the VA with the Bodyguard.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:56 pm 
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not overkill at all. This and "weekly fools", fools picks on the SWM fun forum are by far my favorite threads. I learn from these ones all the time.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:31 am 
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Jedi1972 wrote:
This was my thought, but I was going for the 100 pt. vs Bane.

Ani, SA
VA, Unleashed
Twi'Lek bodyguard
Uggie

Let Ani engage Bane with Loner and let VA gather Force. then bring in the VA with the Bodyguard.

I guess Anakin doesn't "count as" Darth Vader, technically. I don't see it in the errata.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:44 pm 
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Menoth's Fire wrote:
Jedi1972 wrote:
This was my thought, but I was going for the 100 pt. vs Bane.

Ani, SA
VA, Unleashed
Twi'Lek bodyguard
Uggie

Let Ani engage Bane with Loner and let VA gather Force. then bring in the VA with the Bodyguard.

I guess Anakin doesn't "count as" Darth Vader, technically. I don't see it in the errata.


No, I think by VA, unleashed Jedi1972 probably meant Vader's apprentice, unleashed.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:25 pm 
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Xanthan wrote:
No, I think by VA, unleashed Jedi1972 probably meant Vader's apprentice, unleashed.


That is what I meant. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:36 pm 
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Jedi1972 wrote:
Xanthan wrote:
No, I think by VA, unleashed Jedi1972 probably meant Vader's apprentice, unleashed.


That is what I meant. :D
oops, I immediately thought "Vader."

But from a purely rules-lawyer perspective: where does it state that all Aniakins count as vader and vice versa. Because I don't think it states that on AS,SA, just counts as anakin.


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