Reflecting on Gencon, for me has been a mixed bag. I had a blast hanging out, played a few games, and met some real good people.

I’m not going to sugar coat things when it comes to custom map packs. Map Pack 4 is failing from a business standpoint. We’re still in the red and it’s been on preorder for a long time. Also it sold very poorly at Gencon. Last year Map Pack 2 sold 60 or 70 copies in 2 days. Map Pack 4 sold about 30 the whole time. Steve Lucinski wants to take Map Pack 3 of the shelf as well, which just kills me because it has done so well.

Furthermore, while the heroclix maps are doing ok, this is a community where I don’t know anyone, and haven’t established myself as a well known member. It’s going to be a long time before I see any kind of reward in any of that, and I don’t know if it’s worth it.

A lot has gone wrong with the map packs financially in the past few months, and I just don’t know where to go from here.

I have a few options:

1. Back to basics: collect preorders, ship them myself and whatever’s left I keep. Send some to Miniature Market to sell.
2. Stop all together: God knows how a Map Pack 5 will do if Map Pack 4 has done so poorly.
3. Do what Chris West does and release 1 map at a time, like what I’ve been doing with the heroclix maps.

Anyway I’m at a crossroads. All good things must come to an end, or do they?

I would hate to see you stop making maps I have really enjoyed MP3 and we had another Battle For Mos Eisley this past weekend which was epic, (we finally had to call time after 8 hours)

I will however admit that I have not picked up either yours or Chris's new maps, they are on my list but the summer months are tough for us as my wife does not have any students and our anniversary falls right at the beginning of summer. Come the fall I will be able to start purchasing what I don't have and perhaps there are others in similar boats when it comes to spending money on summer vacations as opposed discretionary stuff.

Moving to one map at a time might be more fiscally responsible in a tough economy, but I guess that is really a question for you and your pocket book.

I think a combination of 1 and 3 is probably your best option if you want to continue making them.

Do you have a website (like Chris' mapsofmastery) of your own? Could be something to think about, and that would probably help your credibility with the heroclix crowd as well.

If your having issues with MM, then while it would probably be more work on your part, it might be better to not try to deal directly through them. Also, I would imagine they want a share of the profit, which takes money out of your pocket.

I know $30-40 isnt alot, but with an economy like this, if someone is wanting to buy custom maps, and on a limited budget, a price of that size could be the determining factor to go to your competition, instead of to you. If you start selling them yourselves, id suggest selling them individually, but maybe with a discount of some sort if they buy the entire 'pack'.

Just some thoughts. Good luck and keep up the good work.

Matt, we would all love to see you keep creating maps. I know for me personally, money has been tight, and honestly, I wouldn't have even been able to do GenCon at all this year if I hadn't been able to find some cheap ways around things. Heck, it's part of the reason I decided to play a couple less events this year as well.

Summers can be tough for people in general. That said, I'm sure people will buy the map packs eventually, especially once we drop a new set of floor rules that adds some of these new maps to the Restricted/Standard lists.

For the future, you definitely might consider taking the route that Chris has with his Kickstarter fund-raising. He doesn't even kick-off the printers until the Kickstarter goal has been met, so it ends up being a very financially safe way to do it.

But I ordered my set and have already received it. Super job as usual.



I would support #1. Getting 4 double-sided maps = 8 maps at once for the price offered is a great deal. Using Kickstarter as a way to get commitments before going to the printer should help you from a cash-flow perspective.
Option #3 may be a mixed bag. A higher price per map will add to the return on each map sold, but you may sell less maps. I know I don't like paying $14 for two maps so I've held off on the last couple.



I'm a (former/continuing) Envoy and have been running Clix events since it came out in 2001. Let me know what questions you have and I'll help you. PM me if you want. Or I can call you if that's a better option.




Where are you offering these?

I want to make it clear; I’m not blaming this community, and anyone who hasn’t bought a map pack. It’s not like that at all. I totally understand the binds people are in. I know times are tough. Plus, like it or not, the game lost a lot of people in the past few months, especially casual players, which made up a huge portion of my “fan base”.

I think the re-release of theed will be a good gauge for how things are going to go. Also a lot depends on if the game is ever picked up again, and it’s in a similar format to what we play now. Also like Lobostele said getting the ball rolling on legalizing some of these maps will be huge as well.

@ Chargers, We started a series of heroclix maps, Miniaturemarket sells them, just go to their Heroclix page, and look through the sets, there at the top of each page. I made one and AG7 made one.

For what it's worth MP4 is awesome and I'll more than likely buy a backup (as I always do except for MP3 - which if you still have extras I may buy too)

Yep, summer has been financially tight, so I'm behind on picking up new maps, but will be catching up over the next 2-3 months. Heck, I'm tempted to pick up a 2nd MP3 along with MP4.

Kickstarter or doing your own preorders would seem to be the safe way to go moving forward.

Here's to seeing a bunch of the new maps make "the list", along with an immediate increase in sales.

I've been trying to broaden my product line to appeal to D&D players as well, and that allowed me to sell a lot of copies at Gen Con that wouldn't have moved otherwise. Half of my poster maps are now genre-neutral, meaning they can be used equally well in Star Wars, D&D, or even modern or horror RPGs.

That said, I think there's still a lot of strength left in this community, and the success of both of my Kickstarter pre-orders stands as proof of that to me. They have made it possible for me to stay invested in the SWM game and this community. I know there are those who've told you that SWM is fading away and you'll no longer be able to make a profit catering to it, but I disagree. It may eventually become true, and doing 100% distribution-based sales will eat into your profit enough to make it feel that way, but I think you can still do sci-fi minis maps and make a profit in the process.

I would definitely recommend Kickstarter. Let me know if you need an invite! Set a funding goal that covers the cost of the print run, and if it's successful you know that the job has at least broken even. The sales of additional copies then becomes your profit, and lets you afford to do a 50/50 split with copies sold through places like MM (or even a 60/40 with a mainstream distributor).

I know Steve was giving you a hard time about your packaging...that's one area where you might want to consider his opinion; he knows what sells for him, and face-to-face sales like at Gen Con will benefit from people being able to see on (or through) the packaging to know exactly what they're buying. Your existing packaging is fine for mail-order and Internet sales where you can post jpegs in the product description, but if you ever want to do retail or more robust convention sales, look into ways to make your product eye-catching on a shelf.

As for single-map sales: it works for me. You've gotten good mileage out of combo packs in the past, though, so I'm not sure if you'd want to abandon that. I think you could sell your maps efficiently either way. Just make sure you don't devalue them in the process. You need to charge enough for your product to make it worth your while, and if you charge too little you're basically paying for materials while giving away most of your time and effort. Conversely, charge too much and you won't sell enough to cover the same costs. (I think the price of a booster is pretty fair for a double-sided poster, but that's just me.)

Anyway, I hope you decide to keep producing maps and wish you luck with everything.

Thanks Chris, and trust me I looked at your packaging longingly.no pun intended. I'll talk to you off line about some stuff soon as well.

Matt... and Chris, for that matter; Thanks for all you have done for our game and are continuing to do. Personally, the way I look at it, 14.00 for 2 maps is cheaper than a booster. We don't have new figures to buy anymore, so I really don't understand why every few months if one of you were to produce a 2-sided map why most of us wouldn't jump on that. What Chris is doing makes sense right now, producing a 2-sided map every so often. However you decide to go Matt, I hope the community supports you, but I think Chris has a great concept going and maybe you should try it that way.

I play Heroclix occasionally and I plan to continue to support you there as well.

Hi Matt,

I like you to know July and August has always been hell months for me financially extra bills hit. This is the biggest reason I didn't make gencon this year and get to meet you in person at last. I will be ordering your MP4 just waiting on budget. (aka B-day money?gift from wife) Which will be Monday. The rest of the year my extra money is in 5 week months and after tax time. Something you guys might want to consider when your selling.

You have always done right by me as far as quality and customer support and I will continue to support your endeavors even if you switch to the 1 double sided map at a time like Chris has.

What I can't understand is why he wants to take the maps off the shelf. If your the one who invested in it and he just has to collect when they sell, just sounds wrong to me. Fooey on him.


Edit: Just got back from miniature market to see if map pack 4 is still there. It took me a bit to find it. Unlike previous sales it isn't on the front page to the right but your map pack 3 is. Maybe that is part of the problem.

I'm off to MM to buy MP3 and MP4, Matt. I've held off for too long on these gorgeous maps, and I'm going to try and recommend them to my play group as well. Best of luck with selling MP4, and I know I'll be up for whatever you decide, as I love getting new maps. Oh, and you need to come up to St. Mary's some time! I'm going to try and get commitments from some others in various areas so we can make the trek worth your while, but I think it'd be a great time. I'm considering making it an event where only custom maps are legal.

This what has motivated the folks down here to buy your maps Chris, since we play a number of different RPGS,its jsut a matter of finding the right map for the setting,and since they are genre neutral it makes it easy.