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 Post subject: New 100pt Format: Multi-Squad Monte!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:29 am 
Mandalore
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Special Rules for the Format:
~ Each player brings a number of squads equal to the number of rounds in the tourney +1 (Playing 3 rounds? Bring 4 squads)
~Each squad may have a separate map choice, though they dont have to.
~ No figure costing more than 5pts may be in more than 1 of a players squads. (You could have Loda in one squad, and Luke LotLS in another, but Loda can only be in one, since hes more than 5 points. This goes for non-uniques as well.). This also applies to Reinforcements/ Reserves.
~ The player may only use each squad once in the tournament.
~Players list out all squads, with map choices for each, on a piece of paper.
~After pairings are announced, players swap squad sheets to view their opponents options. The players then secretly choose which squad they want to play against their opponent, based on what their opponent has available to them.
~Players reveal squad choice simultaneously, roll for map, and start their match.
~ A player who receives a Bye in a round chooses one of their squads to be marked off their list.

Example:
Round 1 pairing: Seth(me) and Carl
I have squads A, B, C, and D, and Carl has W, X, Y, and Z. Sheets are swapped.
Based on what Carl has available, I secretly choose A, and Carl secretly chooses Y.
We reveal squads, roll for map, and play.
After round 2 pairings are announced, I show my sheet to my new opponent, with A marked out (cause ive used it), and my opponent shows me his sheet with his three remaining squads.
During the last round, each player should have 2 squads left to choose from.

Variant Rule Sets:
Disturbed1's Original: Squads player brings are equal to the number of rounds played, instead of rounds +1.
Wedge772's Gambit: You secretly choose which of your opponents squads you will face against, instead of secretly choosing your own squad.
GurneyWars' Random Pairing: Each player rolls for the squad they play, instead of secretly choosing. If a player gets a bye, the player rolls to see which squad to mark as as being used.
dvader831's Home Court Advantage: Instead of players secretly choosing their squads, and rolling for map, players make a roll after pairings are announced. High roller chooses their squad first, low roller then chooses their squad, high roller chooses map, low roller chooses side.
(Wedge, Gurney, dvader: if you guys want me to change your variants name to something cooler, lmk lol)

Thanks to Wedge772, GurneyWars, dvader831, Chargers and the others who made suggestions to help this run smoother and work out the kinks. First tournament went down a couple weeks ago, and I'll post about it in a couple minutes.

Edit: Adding in rules for Bye rounds, Reinforcements, and Reserves.

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Also t4 for override and a cheeky flame.


Last edited by Disturbed1 on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:01 am 
One of The Ones
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Shouldn't be too much 'between game' stuff really. As long as people have their squads organized well. I know it might be tough with our local group, as many of the guys tend to just bring a small squad box with their 1 squad in it. Could probably pull it off though.

Best way to do it might be to have people fill out small squad registration sheets at the beginning of the night though, so it's easy for them to 'reveal' their squads to the opponent(s).

Sounds like fun though. Could give people the chance to really screw each other though. Whoever wins that first roll and gets to choose which squad they play, gets a very big advantage, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:38 am 
Ugnaught Master!
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That sounds like tons for fun, but I would make one change.

X vs. Y
Roll for squad selection, high roll (we'll say X) chooses squad first, Y chooses his squad, then X chooses the map automatically. That way, if you get a hose squad against you, you can at least dictate how bad it will be by map choice.

Otherwise, I would love it just because of the chance to play lots of different squads in one tourney. Sith, Vong, and OR, assemble! ROFL

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:39 am 
Mandalore
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I thought about the screwing each other over thing, Im not sure how much youd see it though. Yes, youd probably choose the YVJH squad to completely wipe out your first round opponent's JWM swam, but then when your playing in the finals with Cad +Dash, and all your opponent has left is GOWK, your gonna wish you hadnt wasted the Vong in round 1.

I could see it being abusive, and Im open to suggestions for how to do it better, but I think it could end up being more of a balancing act than anything else. A 'just in case I face X' kind of thing.

I suppose each player could just reveal their round 2 choice at the same time, which was my first thought, but I felt it could come down to a 'well if your playing GOWK, then im not gonna play this, let me go grab my theird squad instead' which is equally unfair.

Suggestions?

Edit, after reading dvader's suggestion: I like it. Anyone else think that might help balance it out enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:24 pm 
One of The Ones
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It sounds like a really fun idea Seth, and I think dvader's suggestion provides enough balance.

In round three you'll just roll for map and hope the squad matchups aren't horrible :P

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:48 pm 
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swinefeld wrote:
In round three you'll just roll for map and hope the squad matchups aren't horrible :P


So, just like a normal match :P

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:04 pm 
Ugnaught Master!
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Well, Seth, if you are trying to avoid that happening, it's a simple fix. If you're playing 3 rounds, make 4 squads!!!! That sounds even better!

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:09 pm 
Ugnaught Master!
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I think the name "Multiple Fronts" sounds like a good take on it. You have plenty of different battles to choose from, which way are you headed!

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:12 pm 
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Kudos! This format looks like it will breathe some new life into 100 pt games, which IMHO were struggling lately. It looks like lots of fun. Oh, and I think Ray's suggestion is a good one, too. You can call it "The First Choice Roll" since the winner gets first choice of squad and first choice (though there is no second) of map.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:15 pm 
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I like the idea of the extra squad. Always leaves you with a choice. Hmmm. Alternative rule perhaps, so you can play either way.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:34 am 
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I thought I'd posted a reply to this, not sure what happened to that post.

Anyway, my suggestion was: Players don't choose which squad to play, they choose which OPPONENT'S SQUAD to face. Hopefully that solves the issue of being "screwed" by squad choice.

ie:

Your squads are all Force user based. Don't pick the Vong squad!

One of your squads is a clone squad. Don't pick the Emperor Palpatine, Sith Lord squad!

One of your squads is a swarm. Don't pick the Lancer squad!

Of course, your opponent has an advantage in being able to pick the actual match-up, but at least the squad roll winner has had the option of picking a squad to face which he has options against.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:37 am 
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I like the idea but I think you should make the squads time to be used more random and maps more random

since its 3 rounds

you make 3 different squads(register them as squad 1, 2 and 3) but you roll to see what squad your playing, you also register 3 maps as map 1, 2 and 3 (you may have the same map more then once in your choices)


randomness example
player x vs player y first round

both players roll a 6 sided die and use there corresponding registered squads

1-2 equal squad 1
3-4 equal squad 2
5-6 equal squad 3

round two player x vs player y
roll 6 sided die again

1-3 equal the lowest number squad left
4-6 equal highest number squad left

As far as maps

after random squad rolls you then
roll map choice
round 1 roll like normal d20
the winner then rolls a 6 sided die

1-2 is his 1st map
3-4 is his second map
5-6 is his third map

This player can't use that map anymore in tournament

Loser of map roll also does a 6 sided die roll and that map is also remove from play and can't be used in tournament.

Loser of map roll gets to choose side and has to set up first or defer side and set up last


map roll round 2

then
1-3 is his lowest number map left
4-6 is his highest number map

repeat above of removing maps from play

round three your stuck with your last squads and last map.


If you use more rounds just make it number of squads equal to rounds and number of maps equal to rounds with appropriate die rolls.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:50 am 
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Wedge772 wrote:
Anyway, my suggestion was: Players don't choose which squad to play, they choose which OPPONENT'S SQUAD to face. Hopefully that solves the issue of being "screwed" by squad choice.


This would keep it more fun and less of a "I won the initial die roll, so I win the game." Good idea.

Another way to keep it more balanced:
-- both players show what squad(s) they have available to play
. -- 1st round they have all three, 2nd round they have 2, last round is 1
-- both players secretly decide which squad they will play
. -- if I think you'll play the Emperor, I'll choose not to play my Clones
. -- it's fun to listen to players try to guess their opponent's intention
-- both players simultaneously reveal which team they will play with
. -- via squad box, team sheet, honesty system, whatever

You may still end up with the lopsided battle, but it is due to players' choices, not the die rolls.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:18 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Chargers wrote:
Wedge772 wrote:
Anyway, my suggestion was: Players don't choose which squad to play, they choose which OPPONENT'S SQUAD to face. Hopefully that solves the issue of being "screwed" by squad choice.


This would keep it more fun and less of a "I won the initial die roll, so I win the game." Good idea.

Another way to keep it more balanced:
-- both players show what squad(s) they have available to play
. -- 1st round they have all three, 2nd round they have 2, last round is 1
-- both players secretly decide which squad they will play
. -- if I think you'll play the Emperor, I'll choose not to play my Clones
. -- it's fun to listen to players try to guess their opponent's intention
-- both players simultaneously reveal which team they will play with
. -- via squad box, team sheet, honesty system, whatever

You may still end up with the lopsided battle, but it is due to players' choices, not the die rolls.


I like that idea the best so far! It removes a big die roll, and replaces it with some strategy and skill. Any time you can do that in this game (or in any strategy game, as far as I can tell), it's a good thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:56 am 
One of The Ones
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Yeah, I like the revealing option as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:08 am 
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Edited cause I didnt read all of a previous post, lol.

I think Im gonna give this a few more days worth of discussion, and then post the actual format thread, and just list alot of these options (reveal first, dont reveal first, roll for squad, etc) as additional variations.

Also, anyone else got a idea for a name? I like the other two suggestions mentioned, but Im still partial to 3 Squad Monte, though it has the problem of all tournies not neccessarily going to just 3 rounds. # Squad Monte?

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:58 am 
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Multi-Squad Monte? MSM for short?

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:28 am 
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I think Im gonna see if the lgs crowd wants to try this for our next tourney.

Gonna use the rounds +1 squads, so your never stuck with just the one left, and the reveal selected squad, as that seems to be the most balanced, really.

I'll repost back about it, assuming we play it, so we have some actual feedback to go off of, instead of just speculation.

Anyone else got any ideas/ suggestions for anything on this, including name?

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fingersandteeth wrote:
Also t4 for override and a cheeky flame.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:41 am 
One of The Ones
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Disturbed1 wrote:
I think Im gonna see if the lgs crowd wants to try this for our next tourney.

Gonna use the rounds +1 squads, so your never stuck with just the one left, and the reveal selected squad, as that seems to be the most balanced, really.

I'll repost back about it, assuming we play it, so we have some actual feedback to go off of, instead of just speculation.

Anyone else got any ideas/ suggestions for anything on this, including name?


So are the players going to show each other squad sheets first, but then pick secretly?

As to the name, I do like 3 Squad Monte (alter as needed for # rounds), or Multi-Squad Monte (MSM).
Multiple Fronts is good too. Can't think of anything clever to add at the moment...

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 Post subject: Re: Working on a new format
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:46 am 
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I dont think we will need to do a sheet, just show the squads. Cards ought to be good enough, I think. If we did something bigger, or at Little Egypt Wars in Sept, then yea, we would probably need to use a sheet.

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