And K-3PO only gives Speed 8 to non-Uniques as well.

Yes, but the K-3PO trick still works, since Kazden can be Rebel.

I find it interesting that Kazdan looks like he will be better suited for the rebels, but its the republic that gives him the best shot at getting the reserves.

So, explain to me again how this isn't going to invalidate the snot out of prior sets again?

Not just Komari, but in general the math just isn't adding up. Everything is getting better... this feels like power creep on every level...

So far the only piece invalidated by the pieces we know is Komari, who sucked to begin with.

Its power growth not power creep. Every game with new releases has done this. If you dont like it stick with a game with fixed pieces.

Pieces have weaknesses.

Brood costs a pretty penny and has a low attack value.

Kazdan brings in reserves, but those reserves count as points when they die. He has no force renewal, and no Lighsaber Assalut for punch. And he costs more than Brood!

Checkers and Chess come to mind...

Changing how the Queen worked in the Middle Ages was true "Powercreep".

What is the difference?

Kazdan Paratus will be a blast to play and bringing in crab droids w/ eventual BDO will make him well worth his points.

Brood kind of sort of sucks at first glance. The push thing and auto 20 damage will end up being quite powerful though. Melee against her will be difficult since the standard trip/double attack pieces will likely be reduced to 1 attack after being throw off her....

Komari was always a bad piece, besides, Wotc Rob said that he would make melee pieces better and more competive. And its not really power creep, they are just making minis better. In many different games, minis from older sets will become obselete eventually, its just how a game is. Frankly the melee pieces really needed this boost, for a while only a few melee pieces have been competive and the reat are junk. I'm glad the melee pieces are finally getting more aggresively costed so that now they are more on a comptetive level.

Isn't that what power creep is? Making new minis better than old ones? Correct me if I'm wrong here...

I've got to agree. Sounds like my definition of Power Creep.

If there is an imbalance between melee and ranged from the get-go, I don't call bridging that gap "Power Creep". Power Creep would be the unbalancing of the game by making newer pieces more cost efficient than older ones of similar point values and therefore creating a gap between the two main branches of attackers which had previously been equal. Melee had almost never been a better option then ranged until the JWM showed up. Was making melee competitive again unbalancing?

Technically, it is correct to make a direct comparison between older pieces and newer ones and call it "power creep". But given the external circumstances of the previous overcosting and pre-existing imbalance, I don't see the problem, other than some people might be mad because new melee is making their old melee (that they never played because they weren't competitive anyway) unplayable...

well I guess you're right, but a lot of people are acting like the melee pieces getting better is a bad thing, and the melee pieces getting better is a good thing IMO.

My basic beef remains this... this set, on the surface, appears on a track to invalidate a pretty significant percentage of the figures I own. To me, this is a grave problem. This is the same formula Magic used... and it made the game, at least for me, not worth trying to keep up with... quite quickly, in fact.

Look, I'm not against new things... I'm not against variety... I'm not even against change. What I AM against is rampant power creep, which feels more like poor design and intentional attempts to take advantage of the player base and less like some 'grand scheme to fix imbalance'.

I'm not a WotC hater, by any stretch... but I feel like I'm hearing from a few fanboi's here. Can anyone legitimately explain why continually increasing power on new things, thus invalidating the old, is a good thing? I'm open to listen to cogent arguments... and saying "WotC Rob said it was good" is not one.

"this set, on the surface, appears on a track to invalidate a pretty significant percentage of the figures I own. "
We have seen barely half a dozen figures!?!
So far only Vader and the apprentice are the only ones that look like they are going to make a dent in playability, and only Vader in high competition games. Vader for one did not replace or obsolete any other Vader that already sees play.

The argument can be made for Brood making Vosa irrelevant, but Vosa was irrelevant from the very beginning, so i really dont see any beef there.

It makes perfect business sense to keep making power increase. It forces people to buy the latest to compete. Is this the case? I think I was one of the few people who did not have any pieces newer then CotF at GenCon (and that was only Mas). Engineer did also with his JWM swarm and Mon Mothma.

Ask yourself why so many had the powerhouse shooters from A&E or BH in their squads. Was it because these sets have upgraded melee to compete with ranged... or is it because both melee and ranged got boosts in playability, thus making the newer sets the goto for both your melee and ranged needs?

Who takes ANY follower from RS/CS/RotS anymore unless you are building squads that revolve around them (as in, I bet you don't look at aurra in your last 37 points anymore). There are exceptions to this, the sub 10 point grunts to complete builds, the stormie is still the best 5 points in the game and of course Override...

OK, well, mainly here guys, you need to recognize that you're talking about the difference between High Competitive builds and the casual players. For instance, I ran Boba BH and Aurra JH at GenCon. 2 of the newest, good, shooters.

But at our LGS this upcoming week, I might run Commander Cody, a bunch of Utapau Troopers, and Obi-wan on Boga. Then the next week I might run Old Republic. Then the week after that I might run a squad of a bunch of Unique Jedi.

Sure, in the competitive scene, things are going to change. I mean, do you honestly want the winning squads at GenCon next year to be Broken Boba, Han Cannon, JWM Swarm, or San Hill again? I don't. I'd rather see something different. So, I'd like to see new figures that sometimes bump out old ones, but also other new figures that bring to light older pieces that might not have been as playable before.

For instance, Han Scoundrel really wasn't considered a Tier 1 meta piece until A&E came out. Perhaps there are still pieces from COTF or BH or A&E (or even earlier than that) that won't become great pieces until something new we get in FU or the Legacy or KOTOR sets next year. Making any sort of sweeping accusations about this set 'power creeping' older sets is just ridiculous until we at least know the stats for the entire set. On top of that, Rob has showed he is quite capable at making old figures playable again (Heck, RS Emperor will make a come-back with this set!).

I encourage all of you to get some 'glasses' to help with your near-sightedness. Have some faith in Rob and his team. They've done a pretty good job up until now.

Actually, that's partially the point, Sith... the fact that we've seen only a handful, and yet every single one of them has proven better than previously similar pieces shows a strong trend. I will agree we don't know for certain, but I must assume that since this has been universal so far, it is a likely trend. Of course it is reinforced by the numerous folks saying how it is "intended power upgrade for melee".



I do agree that change is good... no, we do not want to see an endless repeat of what was before. My point was that I'd rather see a legitimate expectation of balance, rather than an "upgrade" strategy. While we haven't seen the entire set yet, everything I'm seeing so far seems to indicate they are "upgrading" across the board, including quite a few folks chiming in with how this is all part of "Rob's plan". The excuse of "Well, JWM set the new bar." is a poor excuse. Mistakes should be corrected, not repeated. Want to fix JWM? Fix JWM... don't simply make a host of new melee pieces that replace older ones in any competition environment.

As for competition vs no competition... you're right, this doesn't matter as much for non-competition. Yet, even there it DOES matter... scenarios no longer are balanced... pieces can't be expected to be comparable across the board when mistakes are made of this ilk.

Anyway, it is moot... what's coming is coming... and Rob has his strategy, for what it is worth. Perhaps they're all brilliant and I'm missing the big picture... but on the surface it seems like M:TG all over again...

I encourage you to do the same. This is where the discussion breaks down into a stalemate. We both are 'wearing glasses' on this issue. They just have different tint.