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Wizkids Preview #2: Vader, Unleashed...(Spoilers)
https://www.swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=789		 Page 2 of 5
Author:  Bail Ohmar [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:08 am ]
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Darth Vader Unleashed (am I the only one who thinks "Unleahsed" should always be said in a booming Brian Blessed voice?) looks pretty powerful. An 50pt Vader is good, and his stats are great before you get to his Force Powers. I don't think that Lightsaber throw will be all that, opponents will simply not cluster their characters. Force Grip 4 though is massive - auto 40 damage with no save, ouch!

The Caamasi Noble is very interesting. Great way to block corridors and doorways, and if you've got someone with a CE that boosts damage they can Attack safely.
Author:  billiv15 [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:13 am ]
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thejumpingflea wrote:
Once again, I say that the Swiss Army Knife is going to get more and more powerful with the release of this set!!


Perhaps, but LT5 laughs at force immunity. Your figs arent safe in the bubble as it generates attacks. As long s Vader is outside the bubble bam.

Now my question. Since it ignores cover, that should mean that an fig is targettable in los. Can only attack (target) the closest enemy with cover. Since none have cover, he can hit superstealth, figs hiding in the back and so forth. Nice ability. Cost of 5force keeps it in check even with Palps.

I am loving my new 200 B&B with him and the VSA. Gonna need a new name I think.
Author:  madslaust [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:02 am ]
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Does Vader HAVE to attack the closest enemy for the Force Powers?

Or just anyone he can see?

BTW, I think Admiral Ozzel will have 40 HP......

LOL
Author:  madslaust [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:12 am ]
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Just thought something:

The noble says "Diplomat - This character is not a legal target, and does not count as the nearest enemy, if an enemy without Diplomat is in line of sight. These restrictions apply even to adjacent attackers"

If he's the only one within line of sight, against, say, Vader, Vader Unleashed can't attack anyone, right?
Author:  Celticindian [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:26 am ]
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The question is, will there be a figure in this set that also has diplomat, and will it have a viable attack? Perhaps the Muun Tactics Broker?
Author:  Lil Green Dude [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:41 am ]
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homer_sapien wrote:
Mon Cal medic maybe?

Hoping the Ug is the Uggernaught.


I second this. It says "Ugg", so definitely Uggernaught, and a medic makes you feel better.
Author:  Gemini1179 [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:29 pm ]
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All these 'Unleashed'-type jacked-up abilities is making me wonder if the new Luke & Yoda isn't going to have a super-type Force Defense ability.

Force Defense 6 (Force 6; Cancel a Force power used by a character within sight.)

Also, this new Vader is kind of nice in that CS Yoda, or a couple JWM's will actually stand up to him and give him a run for his money. It will be nice to be able to field Republic melee squads again that aren't 90% JWM's... Actually, my Yoda and the Evaders squad just found another use.
Author:  Jughead [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:44 pm ]
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I'm diggin' the new Vader. He's still gotta store up those Force points before he can throw that lightsaber. He doesn't have block or deflect either. I think he'll be tough, but still fun to use. I'm looking forward to gripping 40 damage too. :)

The noble is interesting too. I had to read it over a couple of times to figure out how he was useful. Seems like a cool character.
Author:  Lil Green Dude [ Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:47 pm ]
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I am really excited by the prospect that Yoda will see major playtime after this set, for obivious reasons :). I am getting more and more excited just thinking about it!
Author:  headache62 [ Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:02 pm ]
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Yep - 18 - 1 target, up to 8 characters adjacent - 2 attacks each. Where did you see Lightsaber Sweep 5?
Author:  punxnbutter [ Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:53 pm ]
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It's an accurate lightsaber throw regardless of targeting. At least that's how the wording leaves it fit for abuse. Amazing, simply amazing for 50 points. I suppose my full set to this point will be useless....at least it will shrink the amount of minis I have to carry.
Author:  SirStevee [ Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:58 pm ]
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Fool wrote:
B & B Unleashed obviously



Or shorten it to bbU.


This vader compensates for the fact that the empire had no defense for its stormies against SS ( not counting LVB&B ). He's also really interesting. He's a lot more solid than VA, because his basic stats are better, and his force abilties are not limited by range, which means only force immunity will stop this vader from completly destroying your opponent. Even Yoda can't do a thing to stop Vader's almighty grip from 7+ squares away. His force abilities are also cheaper. He will be very intresting to see in lightning/grip squads. Use him with 1 or 2 shadow gaurds, Thrawn, mas, palpatine, and stormie fodder. Then you have a very good 200 pt. squad that can "unleash" damage very quickly, or wait for a good moment to strike.

I call it EVB, for Emporer, Vader, Black gaurd.
Author:  Sithborg [ Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:59 pm ]
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That will be used once, maybe twice a game? I am not seeing what the big deal is. Yes it is powerful, but it is expensive. And very easy to plan for.
Author:  LoboStele [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:05 am ]
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Well, couple of things. Yes, Vader could be a beast on the first turn. But right now, Korriban is still not a legal map to field, so it's really a moot point. Secondly, there's still the chance that the starting areas will be errata'd for Korriban specifically. I have faith that the game designers wouldn't offer things like LT5 if there were ways for Vader to wipe out pieces on the first turn. In a 150 point squad on Korriban, using Thrawn would all but guarantee you'd kill your opponents Mas/R2/etc. on the first turn. I'm sure Rob and his team have taken that into account.

I'm mostly interested in seeing what goofy things we can come up with for the Caamasi. My first thought right off the bat was "ooh, shield for stealth units!" and thought maybe it would help with Rodian BSV squads, but then I realized it still would really only help the Super Stealth squads, not the Stealth + RBSV squads.

Still, it will make for some interesting SS stuff. You could actually run SS on Mustafar with a couple of these guys. Put the Caamasi out front in order to create cover for your other pieces. Now, the enemy can't target the SS guys because they're behind the Caamasi, thus in cover, and they can't target the Caamasi because they have LOS to other pieces, even though they can't attack them! Even regular stealth characters could use this tactic against any enemies that don't have Accurate!
Author:  SirStevee [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:40 pm ]
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Exactly. VA and the new Vader are really cool, but even with RS palp, you will only be able to use one of the really cool force powers once or twice per game with VA and Vader himself.


Now, with all three combined, that's a lot of auto-damage. Not broken, just really kick ass, if your opponent is unprepared.
Author:  fingersandteeth [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:56 pm ]
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nice figs

but really don't justify the outrage.

You will use it once or twice, perhaps 3-4 times if you base your whole squad around using it/them.

Good figs but not gamebreaking or even a advert for power creep.
Author:  emr131 [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:04 pm ]
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fingersandteeth wrote:
nice figs

but really don't justify the outrage.

You will use it once or twice, perhaps 3-4 times if you base your whole squad around using it/them.

Good figs but not gamebreaking or even a advert for power creep.


I see the argument about it only being used once or twice and that is it. However, imagine the implications that you will be further reduced to not using certain old viable squads.

One did not take clones for fear of SL Palpy, will people now fear this Vader enough to completely wipe other builds from existence?

...
My Vader and VA build also has the skiff in it... brilliant! 2 replace turn figures and a ride for them!!! MUAHAHAHA.
Author:  fingersandteeth [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:25 pm ]
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emr131 wrote:

I see the argument about it only being used once or twice and that is it. However, imagine the implications that you will be further reduced to not using certain old viable squads.

One did not take clones for fear of SL Palpy, will people now fear this Vader enough to completely wipe other builds from existence?


Don't think so. There is nothing as absolute with this Vader as - "oh all you have are clones, shame you can't kill my main piece."
Author:  Grambo [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:01 pm ]
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My biggest concern with the new Vader is that, simply, everything we've seen from FU appears to be following the same trend as Magic did... escalation of power. If the new stuff is simply flat better than the old stuff, I believe the designers have blown it.

Admittedly, too early to know... but I'm definitely worried. My opinion, the new Vader is definitely too good for 50 points... or too cheap, depending on perspective.
Author:  billiv15 [ Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:04 pm ]
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Grambo wrote:
My biggest concern with the new Vader is that, simply, everything we've seen from FU appears to be following the same trend as Magic did... escalation of power. If the new stuff is simply flat better than the old stuff, I believe the designers have blown it.

Admittedly, too early to know... but I'm definitely worried. My opinion, the new Vader is definitely too good for 50 points... or too cheap, depending on perspective.


I think that is speculation that will turn out wrong in the long run. Sure the Vader offers some new tricks, but nothing that isnt easily beaten with stuff we have in the game already.

Playtesting will tell the story, and I am with Fingers on this one. We wont hear complaints about it in a couple of months. It is pretty well balanced in my opinion.
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