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 Post subject: Preview #1 on the WotC Page
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:45 am 
Master of the Order
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Preview is up!

I'll edit this post with all the goodies in a second.

It's the Emperor's Shadow Guard and Vader's Secret Apprentice, Unleashed!

EDIT:

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Emperor's Shadow Guard
Faction: Imperial
Cost: 23
Hit Points: 90
Defense: 19
Attack: + 8
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Melee Attack
Cunning Attack
Deadly Attack
Stealth

Force Powers
Force 1
Lightsaber Block


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Vader's Apprentice, Unleashed
Faction: Imperial
Cost: 48
Hit Points: 130
Defense: 20
Attack: +13
Damage: 20

Special Abilities
Unique
Melee Attack
Double Attack

Force Powers
Force 2
Force Renewal 1
Force Lightning 4 (Force 4, replaces attacks: range 6; 50 damage to target. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round; save 16)
Force Lightning 5 (Force 5, replaces turn: range 6; 60 damage to target and 2 characters adjacent to that target. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round; save 16)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:52 am 
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OMFG!! HOLY S***!!! DAMN!!!

Where do you start!!! Both of these figs are off the chart good!
The guard - This thing is going to be absolutely huge when added with thrawn. With 90 HP its not going anywhere fast. Add in thrawn and you have a +11 for 20 or +14 for 30 and guaranteed cunning. THey get all of the stealth benefits and can block against jedi! This guy is awesome.

The apprentice - okay. granted you need a lot of charging to get the force you need (we will forget the fact he can be run with RS emperor!), but i am going to start running a lot more thrawn and Cs yoda just to counter this guy. talk about frying power! Thank god he has no defense, but hey, with thrawn swap who needs defense.

question though - note force 4 only affects target while force 5 affects up to two more targets. Error or special definitions?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:57 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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:o Jaw completely open. SWEET!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:02 pm 
Warmaster
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Do you think the rebel version of Vader's Apprentice, Unleashed will be as powerful.
An automatic 50/60 damage is not a good thing in my book. But otherwise not bad.
I think yoda will see more play now as he can counsel this lightning.
I wonder if Vader will have it as well?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:07 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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WOW. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:07 pm 
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OK, my quick take on these.

The Shadow Guard. VERY COOL. It's kind of like a re-done version of the old Dark Side Marauder from Universe. The Shadow Guard gets 1 more Defense, but 2 less to attack than the DSM. However, the addition of Cunning more than makes up for that. Adding in Deadly Attack and Stealth for only 1 more build point? Not bad. What just popped into my head right now was that he's the same cost as Bacara. Granted, he doesn't have the sweet CE like Bacara, but in a one-on-one fight, I think it's quite obvious who would win. I'm giving this one a 4 out 5 right out of the gate, with the potential to go higher still depending on the rest of this set. Plus, the sculpt is just too cool. These guys look awesome.

Vader's Apprentice, Unleashed. Wow...Not sure I know what to say right now besides wow. Am I seeing an all new version of Shock Therapy at 100 points? This guy is a beast. No single piece (barring Disintegration or Criticals) can kill him in 1 turn (max is 120 from something like Lord Vader or Mara Jade, Jedi), so you're likely to get off 2 Force attacks once you get in close, provided you've had enough time to build up some force points, or you have a battery. With the added ability to activate any character presently in the game (except for the AT-AT) that is definitely some 'Unleashed' Force abilities. Granted, the cost of those Force Points is somewhat prohibitive to his usefulness, and it costs him in other areas, such as the fact that he only has Double Attack. But again, to compare him to an older piece in the same faction, Anakin Sith Apprentice, I think Vader's Apprentice could waste Anakin in a heart beat. It takes Anakin SA 5 attacks, WITH Sith Rage, and 7 attacks without it to kill the Apprentice. The Apprentice only needs 3 attacks, and one Force Lightning 4 to finish off Ani. Pretty impressive. Most impressive, I would even say. :) Again comparing the Apprentice to Anakin SA, you see that the Apprentice has 1 higher defense, 10 more HP, but the same Attack and Damage. Both have Double Attack. Granted, Anakin's Loner and Sith Rage make him a nasty up-close-and-personal fighter, but the Apprentice is one I would fear much worse. Activation, save of 16, is definitely something to be feared. Tell me, how many times, since this time last year have you honestly rolled above a 16 while using Leia Hoth Commander? It's hard to roll those saves.

So, overall, both are really impressive to me. Vader's Apprentice is going to be so much fun to play, and if he is any indication of what the rest of this set will look like, or what the future of Force users in the game might look like, I am seriously excited. Things have become a bit boring IMO, with the reigns of Boba, Lord Vader, and the JWM. Pieces like Vader's Apprentice are just what we need to shake things up. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:11 pm 
Master of the Order
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Sithdragon13 wrote:
question though - note force 4 only affects target while force 5 affects up to two more targets. Error or special definitions?


I doubt it's a typo. Notice also that FL4 is a Replaces Attacks ability, while FL5 Replaces TURN. So, I think the "and 2 characters adjacent to that target" is likely to keep the player from sitting in one place and waiting for the enemy to base him in order to do 60 damage instead of 50. If the enemy piece is the only one basing you at the moment, you'd better not do FL5. :P

I'm really not bothered at all by the auto 50/60 damage. Heck, with Luke COTF, RS Obi-Wan, and Princess Leia right now, you can have a guaranteed 170 damage for 12 force points. :P

I'm just glad there isn't any way for the Imperial faction to get Force Spirit...yet at least. Hopefull Vader won't have it, lol.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:12 pm 
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I had this long speech typed, and it messed up when I went to post, so I'll just say that LoboStele said everything I was about to! Amazing pieces! Simply Amazing!
"Let's get ready to rumble!!!!"

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:20 pm 
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Well on the plus side i have said many times the the Jedi need to be more powerful, I only hope this is not one sided and that the rebels get something & Shaak Ti and not just defencive powers.
I am still not sure about 50/60 damage but as you say others can do similar damage when attacking.
Still i think this is the best set yet ( well for Rebels & Imperials)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:24 pm 
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I dont know if any of you remember the 22 pt AT-ST squad i had build with marauders, but imagine putting these guys in. A cunning swing could land for 50 DAM(rodian and weequay)!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:28 pm 
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Thanks for the heads up on the preview!

Shadow Guard: I really like this piece. He puts a lot of Jedi to shame. His sculpt is very cool and his assortment of abilities and stats makes him very potent. I can't wait to run him.

DV Apprentice: My first impression is a big WOW! However, I thought he was going to have a broader assortment of Force Powers like Force Push or Force Burst. I do wish that he had some sort of defensive ability, but I guess you wouldn't want to keep this guy running around too long to pull of Force Lightning in multiple rounds. People would start whinning too much. I was also hoping for Loner and maybe rapport with Darth Vader. With that said, I still like the piece very much!


Last edited by homer fett on Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:30 pm 
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Sithdragon13 wrote:
OMFG!! HOLY S***!!! DAMN!!!


pretty much my reaction. :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:36 pm 
General
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And now for a more pessimistic take...

Vader's Apprentice, Unleashed looks the most like Luke Skywalker, Champion of the Force to me. Kind of an average beatstick with guaranteed damage if you save up enough Force. He can't do much outside of the big blast things (which are admittedly very cool). Force Defense will shut him down. He has no defensive Force powers. Shooters will take him out long before he can get to the enemies (obviously Thrawn helps with that). Just about any other beatstick in the game will beat him one-on-one when he only puts out 40 damage in attacks a turn--many of them will beat him even if he gets a 50 or 60 damage headstart. Between Ripostes and Sith Rage, even Ani SA can kill him one-on-one after taking a Force Lightning 4. Unless he gets some better support in FU, I think he's not going to be doing much. The new Force Lightning seems like a gimmick that people will try at first, then realize it's not worth it (very much like Use the Force). Now if Vader granted him any number of abilities (Extra Attack, Sith Rage, Lightsaber Deflect/Reflect/Block/Riposte, Cunning Attack) that actually augmented his fighting/defensive ability, he'd be decent.

The Emperor's Shadow Guard looks like a slightly weaker Saesee Tiin. Being a non-Unique Imperial, he gets access to some nice CEs--but I don't think he'll see much more play than Saesee Tiin does.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:43 pm 
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VSA is cool. I was impressed, then cooled down, then I am getting more excited. Let's remember something, not only does his Lightning do autodamage, but it also activates guys. Granted, he has some weaknesses: reliant on expensive FP for big damage, Force Defense is killer, and somewhat lowish stats. But with the activating part and enough FP, he can get enough of a lead in damage to take on any beatstick. Probably won't work too well in 100, since I am thinking you NEED Palps with him. However, 150 and 200 Shock Therapy will be fun.

And the Shadow Guard is too cool for words. Give me a ton.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:44 pm 
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@shinja - You have to be very careful what you give to imps exactly because of thrawn. The apprentice is a very solid beatstick, but you naturally have to decide if you want impressive offense or lackluster offense with some defense. He can fry the frap out of someone(s) and then has very solid stats to be able to toe the line with about any beatstick.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:54 pm 
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Wow. What a way to start the previews.


The shadow guard is very impressive. A load of HP, and decent attacking abilities. Like lobostele said, he's like a really good dark side marauder. I can now see some imperial stealth squads see play now. Thrawn, a bith vigo or two, at least 2 of these guys, and whatever else is good with stealth. I love it. I give it an 8.


Vader's apprentice is very WOW. He's rather easily countered, though. Provided you have somthing with force defense, like CS yoda. This makes me think that CS yoda will see a lot of tourney play if Vader's apprentice is seen in competative play. In addition to that, he's still weak though. He can get one shot of with his force powers, and then he's very vournerable, because you will not be able to do it again. Which is why RS palpatine will become his best friend, if the new vader does nothing for him. Honestly, he's a glass cannon. He's got meaty HP and good defense, but he WILL die if he can't kill the beatstick near him instantly. I'd give him a 6 out of 10. Very intresting, but not all that powerful once his uses his force power, because he just can't do a thing afterward, compared to other higher priced beatsticks. Like general windu. He's still got triple and vappad, when the apprentence has only double and that's it.


I think his rebel version will be a lot better with basic attacking, and not as good with the force points.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:57 pm 
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My take, in brief:

Shadow Guard- appears to be a mild case of power creep to me, if you compare it to other 22-24 point characters. Actually, if it didn't have stealth, it probably would be right where it needed to be.

Vader's Apprentice. Well, it looks like Vong will be seeing more play. Cancelling out the lightning significantly weakens this piece. Also, I wonder how he would do swuaring off against Darth Nihilus.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:00 pm 
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Seeing as no one plays nihilus, id say pretty good. Also Nihilus has to get pretty close which will lead him to electric U.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:11 pm 
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Maybe if Nihilus can get close enough to start using Sith Hunger before the SA builds up enough FP to zap him.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:13 pm 
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Nihlus has 2 turns to get close enough. Even then, it will be down to a key Init. VSA has the advantage either way, since he has more HP.

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