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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:23 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Hey Billiv do I know this Darth Dracko guy?? Did I used to play frequently with him??


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:46 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
Bail Ohmar wrote:
My LGS wishes the previews were coming so I would place an order :)

I think it's the elitist constant focus on competetive play that is probably bugging me most on the WOTC boards. Maybe they need a 'Fun-Play' forum, but I can't see that happening.


Well fair enough. You are free to start your own threads over there if you dont like ours. I grow tired of this debate. I specify in every friggen thread anymore that "I am only talking about top level competitive SWMs here" and yet I still get accused of that crap. I talk about it there because its the only place I can give feedback to WotC and DCI. Uliq and I start threads and make titles to let people know what its about and yet we get people who dont even play dci telling us how it should be run....

I dont go into the "fun" threads and trash your ideas. In fact I participate in many. Competitive gaming is fun for many people. And most of us play more than just competitively. See Tile Wars for example (even though I couldnt make it because of work). The idea was awesome - and I want to play it sometime.

Elitist lol man. Perception is always so much stronger than reality. Try looking at it from someone else' persective before you go about throwing around words like "elitist" and so forth. Thats pretty rude man.

Why are you attacking Bail?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:52 pm 
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Bah, if you have Kalamazoo in your profile, you automatically become one of the elitest or "yes-men", which always bugs me. Granted, I am guilty of the accusations at times, but not always.

And there is a very good reason why I only really comment on San squads in squad forum over there.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:55 pm 
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Menoth's Fire wrote:
Why are you attacking Bail?


I should apologize somewhat to Bail. My rant was somewhat to do with the tools posting on WotC lately getting to me bit. I found his comment to b annoying so it became my rant. Little over the top - not that I disagree with anything I said, just it wasnt all meant for him :)

Zack, I dont think you know him. He plays in Waukesha at the Military supply/Game store, I forget the name, Engineer knows it. I dont think he has ever played at any of the good Milwaukee venues where we go :)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:16 am 
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I think the WotC boards are some of the friendliest out there, and well-moderated, considering the size.

I don't think the level of trolling or flaming is much changed from the past.

<shrug>

If there were anywhere close to the same number of members here, the inevitible jerks would be part of it.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:24 am 
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Another thing to remebmer is that right now there just isnt much to talk about. We are pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to building new squads, and right now it does feel like there is a bit of apathyjust because we are in the 'dead zone' between sets. As the new set comes out, things will pick up again and it won't look quite so bad.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:13 am 
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NickName wrote:
I think the WotC boards are some of the friendliest out there, and well-moderated, considering the size.

I don't think the level of trolling or flaming is much changed from the past.

<shrug>

If there were anywhere close to the same number of members here, the inevitible jerks would be part of it.


I would say that "the SW WotC boards are some etc. etc."

Some of the other spots (D&D, Magic, DDM) are not as forgiving.

In Bill and Drew's defense, you guys haven't seen elitism until you've been thoroughly trounced by the Magic posters, most of whom are 12-16 years old and in all likelihood could stand a lesson in proper social interaction.

Bill, referring to people as "tools" really isn't helping your cause. It's that sort of confrontational attitude that exacerbates the situation. :(

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:28 am 
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Boris wrote:
Bill, referring to people as "tools" really isn't helping your cause. It's that sort of confrontational attitude that exacerbates the situation. :(


I have rarely used that, and in my opinion its a pretty benign joke for when someone just refuses to get it. I think I only use it on friends as well occasionally. Plus, when is the last time I used any insulting word? Perception Boris.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:19 am 
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I think it would really help if certain people did not make opinions as facts or try to push their opinions as the correct ones or other logical impossibilities. I have been guilty of it time to time, others have been as well.

It is very tough to swallow when these statements are made, and I really do enjoy tearing them apart. I know I would prefer if you tossed in statements that make it clear it is your opinion and not some massed response (the word I is your friend on these kinds of statements).

I find the wotc moderation to be pretty blatant in terms of report -> moderate. I have seen threads that I wish other posts were moderated but instead only the one post that was reported was moderated. I really do pick and choose which posts I report, most of them are completely blatant CoC violations and lately they are off-topic posts that just should not be in the forum at all. I have used the button less then 5 times so far.

However, as a person with 2 warnings under his belt, I can assure you that picking a fight with me on the WotC board will immediately receive a report as I can not try to respond in kind for fear of banishment. One last tip everybody: never correct grammar there, some yahoo could cry to a moderator.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:24 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
Boris wrote:
Bill, referring to people as "tools" really isn't helping your cause. It's that sort of confrontational attitude that exacerbates the situation. :(


I have rarely used that, and in my opinion its a pretty benign joke for when someone just refuses to get it. I think I only use it on friends as well occasionally. Plus, when is the last time I used any insulting word? Perception Boris.


Well, obviously your definition of "tool" in this regard is different from mine. Using it on "friends" is one thing, but in the context of your written statement (that read basically "I'm sorry I struck back, I'm just frustrated by some people on the WotC boards") it didn't come across as humorous.

Perception indeed. :o

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:22 am 
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"Never correct grammar there, some yahoo could cry to a moderator."

yeah, this one really torks me. The post is almost completely unreadable, yet we get reported for saying something. dumb.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:58 am 
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Yeah pretty much. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:59 pm 
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I think it would really help if certain people did not make opinions as facts or try to push their opinions as the correct ones or other logical impossibilities. I have been guilty of it time to time, others have been as well.

It is very tough to swallow when these statements are made, and I really do enjoy tearing them apart. I know I would prefer if you tossed in statements that make it clear it is your opinion and not some massed response (the word I is your friend on these kinds of statements).


There's certainly something to this. And I try to throw in the "I think" and "IMHO" enough to reinforce that point, but there's still the underlying truism that whatever you post is pretty much your opinion outside of relaying some fact or hearsay.

"Mustafar is a terrible map."
"IMHO, Mustafar is a terrible map."
"I think Mustafar is a terrible map."

They're all the same, and it's annoying as the writer (and eventually distracting to the reader) to tage the latter two on every sentence.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:47 pm 
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I agree with Nickname: I'm not some wishy-washy feel-goodnick that adds a bunch of qualifiers on his statements to protect someone's hypersensite sensibilities. If I state something, I believe that it is true and will not generally add "IMHO" or "I think." If I state that "Mustafar is a terribel map" clearly I do not believe that somehow I have unravelled a universal truth, despite the fact that I believe that it is, by and large, true. It is my opinion and I loathe when I am forced to explain that fact. Everyone needs to toughen up; why is stating an opinion emphatically so offensive? Do you feel that somehow it invalidates your opinion? I may come across as borish or a flat-out jerk (and I actually hope that I do, because I am), but that doesn't invalidate my arguments. Of course if I follow it up by ignoring or shooting down any conflicting opinions, out-of-hand, then I've crossed the line that shuts down a discussion, and that's a completely different subject.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:22 pm 
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NickName wrote:
Quote:
I think it would really help if certain people did not make opinions as facts or try to push their opinions as the correct ones or other logical impossibilities. I have been guilty of it time to time, others have been as well.

It is very tough to swallow when these statements are made, and I really do enjoy tearing them apart. I know I would prefer if you tossed in statements that make it clear it is your opinion and not some massed response (the word I is your friend on these kinds of statements).


There's certainly something to this. And I try to throw in the "I think" and "IMHO" enough to reinforce that point, but there's still the underlying truism that whatever you post is pretty much your opinion outside of relaying some fact or hearsay.

"Mustafar is a terrible map."
"IMHO, Mustafar is a terrible map."
"I think Mustafar is a terrible map."

They're all the same, and it's annoying as the writer (and eventually distracting to the reader) to tage the latter two on every sentence.


Really, was my post annoying to read? I think, other then the last sentence, which was strictly a PSA, I used the word 'I' every sentence. I did not find it difficult to word my sentences this way. I put this with simple grammar errors, if I can make the mental shift to spell correctly, then I can make the mental shift to word things exactly how I want them interpreted.

I think this is best illustrated with the excuse 'it is difficult to convey feeling in posts'. I feel if the person took the time to write what they meant, then it is harder to misinterpret their ideas. I think most people know I RARELY use smilies, I do when I know it is possible for one of my posts to be taken seriously or in jest. What I am saying is this: If you think your posts can be taken multiple ways, perhaps you should clarify them... especially if one of the ways is hostile.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:20 pm 
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Boris wrote:
Well, obviously your definition of "tool" in this regard is different from mine. Using it on "friends" is one thing, but in the context of your written statement (that read basically "I'm sorry I struck back, I'm just frustrated by some people on the WotC boards") it didn't come across as humorous.

Perception indeed. :o


Well what can I call people on a completely separate message board without offending you (or anyone in general)? I call my friends "tools" all the time, and they me. I suppose that context doesnt translate well online of course.

As usual, I meant no offense, and shouldnt be taken too seriously :)

And I try as much as possible to qualify my statements. But I find it silly to have to personally. Everything I post is my opinion. Why should I have to qualify it as such? Can you the reader not be expected to understand that point? Perhaps I am just too used to the academic community where writing the phrase, "I think" is frowned upon :) But that's just my opinion :) Did I use enough smilies to prove this post is in jest yet? :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Perhaps now?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:39 pm 
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emr131 wrote:
Really, was my post annoying to read?


Not at all. I just don't think the I/we qualifier will be enough in general.

Drew tends to use it a lot already, but the confrontational or no-girls-allowed clubhouse tone of his posts remains a magnet for backlash.

But for those who've done a lot of writing, it's just hard to force yourself to do something that's frowned upon everywhere else and been beaten out of you over time. :)

You know how hard it was to start using stupid smilies? :D


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:53 pm 
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NickName wrote:
emr131 wrote:
Really, was my post annoying to read?


Not at all. I just don't think the I/we qualifier will be enough in general.

Drew tends to use it a lot already, but the confrontational or no-girls-allowed clubhouse tone of his posts remains a magnet for backlash.

But for those who've done a lot of writing, it's just hard to force yourself to do something that's frowned upon everywhere else and been beaten out of you over time. :)

You know how hard it was to start using stupid smilies? :D


The worst part about it is that too many people rail against the person, not the position. It's almost impossible these days to have a logical, rational discussion because of the stigma attached to certain usernames (mine included). Even in situations where effort is made to overlook who is saying what, someone else is ready to come along and fan the flame the minute they spot the slightest dissension. It's ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:25 pm 
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Boris wrote:
The worst part about it is that too many people rail against the person, not the position. It's almost impossible these days to have a logical, rational discussion because of the stigma attached to certain usernames (mine included). Even in situations where effort is made to overlook who is saying what, someone else is ready to come along and fan the flame the minute they spot the slightest dissension. It's ridiculous.


Agreed this is the biggest problem. I am often afraid to even make a "sky is falling" post any more when you post something Boris because it brings out the "yea yea" group. It takes all the fun out of making little jabs at people you respect, simply because people dont recognize the relationship.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:26 pm 
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I just don't think it's that bad. I thought the conversation with Droopy was quite civil.

CotF tried to sneak in a quick jab but it somehow was successfully avoided. :)

Not until Galbraithe showed up with an obvious chip on his shoulder did things go awry.

The current thread from Drew also seems to be humming along without too much sniping.


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