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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:29 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Sure here's a thought, why don't we ask that Jedi just never take dmg at all?

We'll up their def, up their HP and they'll all have a SA that doesn't allow them to be hurt in any way at all, from any type of attack or ability.

I mean that's where this line of thinking eventually ends.

The summation of everything here is that the more decisions you remove from the game by giving characters abilities like this makes the people playing worse at it.

Twin, you don't have to choose between extra dmg and keeping your character safe, for example.

All Jedi having evade or Parry, no thought in whether you have a chance to negate the dmg.

Just make the choice and live with the choice.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:47 pm 
Jedi Council
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Lord_Nihl wrote:
Sure here's a thought, why don't we ask that Jedi just never take dmg at all?

We'll up their def, up their HP and they'll all have a SA that doesn't allow them to be hurt in any way at all, from any type of attack or ability.

I mean that's where this line of thinking eventually ends.


Nice Straw Man arguement there. People thinking jedi should get the free use abilities like Evade/Parry is a far cry from any one suggesting they be made invincible.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:53 pm 
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homer_sapien wrote:
People thinking jedi should get the free use abilities like Evade/Parry is a far cry from any one suggesting they be made invincible.


I wouldn't say it is all that far of a cry.

Jedi already have higher HP and higher defense than non-jedi minis (which is probably due more to their "Melee" special ability than Jedi being somewhere in the name).

However, if a free, unlimited 50% free damage that can be rerolled by force points, effectively you've quadrupled a character's hp.

To take this to its extreme, imagine Bane or Vader, JH with evade or parry. In this extreme, impossible to publish examble, Bane would have the equivelent of 1600 hp given enough force in many situations.

I don't want to see that. EVER.

The only way that evade or parry could be fair on a Jedi is to knock the HP and def down so much that they dont' feel like jedi at all.

I also like the comments about the RPG game. I don't have experiece regarding how the game is balanced, but that makes a lot of sense.

Evade, and to a lesser extent, Parry just don't feel Jedi-like. While it isn't impossible to imagine, having boundaries makes jedi better in my mind.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:27 am 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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I think that some of the Jedi should get this ability if you look at the sith they have better force powers with evade it could even up some good guys compare to evil one's. If Luke Skywalker JM had this ability he would be vastly better.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:43 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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You don't have to think about this at all, the figs discussed (jedi) don't need this at all, its complete overkill

@homersapien,
That's basically what's being asked for here. There isn't a problem with Jedi taking dmg or being hit by attacks, people want the chance to never take dmg for free.

That's exactly what's being proposed here.

Simply put Jedi already have a leg up on the majority of other pieces due to the fact their stats are better, they have force powers, and for those abilities and powers their cost is not that high.

To make them better still is asking for Power Creep when it is not needed in this game right now.

Not only that it makes people worse players by removing the choice from the game.

The people who are good at this game make decisions that limit consequences, changes like this eliminate those same consequences now, but without the choice.

Its weak.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:44 pm 
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Lord_Nihl wrote:
@homersapien,
That's basically what's being asked for here. There isn't a problem with Jedi taking dmg or being hit by attacks, people want the chance to never take dmg for free.


I'm not denying that the likely result would be some nearly unstoppable beatsticks like Bane would turn into if he was given Evade/Parry. I just think the people that wanted it in the first place were just thinking of it as a way to improve the CS jedi that are never played and didn't think it all the way through to what would happen if it was added to a really strong piece with FR.

After all I can understand some people's frustration when you have things like minis of characters on the Jedi Council who at best have Block or Deflect that they can use 3-4 times the whole game when we now have these new abilites like Evade/Parry that do exactly the same thing but some random nobody piece can use them on every single attack.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:45 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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They don't need to be improved, the whole game is undergoing a recosting.

When the sets arrive that carry those jedi you'll the upgrade like we have in Quilan right now.

This won't help them, let Wotc do their job and just deal.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:09 pm 
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No need to tell me that. I'm not the one saying all jedi should get Evade/Parry. I'm perfectly fine with waiting for new more usable versions of the CS jedi to come out. I just disagreed with the way you disagreed with them.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:46 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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ehhh I have to admit I was thinking nothing of the Sith when saying they'd get the one roll and no force reroll for evade/block. Bane really needs to have no defense to balance him.

I will be content with new versions of the CS Jedi and Obi unleashed type characters as the game goes on. I was just trying to think of an alternate to 30+ new pieces to replace what we have.


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