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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:08 pm 
Death Star Designers
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While i agree with you billiv, the number of sets due out is no indication...look at dreamblade. How many games get canceled with sets due in the wings.

The pessimism i think is justified in how SWM has been treated even though we all think Gencon was a rousing success.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:16 pm 
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Sithdragon13 wrote:
While i agree with you billiv, the number of sets due out is no indication...look at dreamblade. How many games get canceled with sets due in the wings.

The pessimism i think is justified in how SWM has been treated even though we all think Gencon was a rousing success.


How have we been treated? SWMs was not considered until this last year to be a viable competative game. WotC has only relatively recently started to support it as such. Last year, we got a case of Boosters for winning Gencon. This year we got $2000. Now say what you will about how they should have viewed it, etc. To use the past in this case is not that enlightening. The recent past is much more indicative in my opinion.

And I tire of comments like, "Isnt it safe to say that the tourney was 10 short of qualifying for support". I figure 5k is pretty damn nice support. But it proves you cant please everyone.

Oh and to use Dreamblade as an example isnt that helpful either. It was heavily supported for one year and it didnt meet expectations so its losing its support. That is not at all comparable to the SWMs story. I understand your point Sith, but I dont think it holds up. SWMs has had 4 strong years of sales and the future looks bright!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:47 pm 
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Dont get me wrong....I am very excited about the future and think we are finally starting to get the respect we deserve. I was just making a point. I think the game is finally turning a corner support wise.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:00 am 
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Sithdragon13 wrote:
Dont get me wrong....I am very excited about the future and think we are finally starting to get the respect we deserve. I was just making a point. I think the game is finally turning a corner support wise.


We are agreed on that sir.

@Dean. I too would love to hear how WotC viewed Gencon. However, there is no reason other than our desire to hear it, that they should share it. I have posted this before, but WotC will not post any plans based on the Success of Gencon until they are in the final stages. We had a very successful Gencon last year as well, and it wasnt until January I think, that we heard anything about the Championship.

WotC willy nilly throwing out possibilities would be the worst case scenario for us and for the company. Things falling through make a company look much worse than any appearance of apathy (which I cannot agree is true in this case).

My final point on this, we should not expect any response from WotC. It doesnt make sense for them as a profit making company. We will know in 6 months when next year's qualifiers are announced or not. That's probably the best we can hope for. So if you are anxious now, I hate to see what you are like in January :) The future looks bright, have patience and wait for the results guys. It is coming I am sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:12 am 
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Check out the Homepage. Boris' (Dennis Beard) article is on the SWMs mainpage about Gencon. Its good read, and i think it should cover some of the pessimism well.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:28 am 
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I have it on good authority that WotC was pleased with Championship turn-out, and I knew that when I wrote a tournament report for WotC, and I tried to point that out as subtly as possible. In addition, there were some "edited-in" comments in the report I wrote that makes me feel even more optimistic. (No, I'm not going to tell you what the edited statements were.)

EDIT: Ack, Bill you beat me to it. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:37 am 
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I was really excited to see that the article on the WotC site talked about how successful turnout was until i found out it was written by Boris. No slight on Boris, just that it wasn't coming from an official source.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:54 am 
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Can't wait to read it. I'm at work and can't view the WotC home page, so I'll have to check out this weekend sometime from home.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:01 am 
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Sithdragon13 wrote:
I was really excited to see that the article on the WotC site talked about how successful turnout was until i found out it was written by Boris. No slight on Boris, just that it wasn't coming from an official source.


I understand what you're saying, but realize also that in 4 years of SWM, NO ONE from Organized Play has ever posted a SWM-related article or in a SWM message board thread. (Okay, Ian Richards did post a response once, but under someone else's username at Celebration IV and I'm still not convinced that was actually him.)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:09 am 
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LOL, oh i know. When i saw that i was like YES! Second resonse was who wrote it? was it someone official? Is this a hint on their insight on how we did?

It was a good article, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:47 am 
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Great article! I loved the re-cap of all the events and squads. I didn't even mind that my last name had an extra "r" in it. :P (Don't worry, most people tend to think it's "NoRth..." instead of "Noth...")


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:12 am 
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I'm glad the article pointed out that map rolls, side rolls, and the occasional early disintegration had a large impact on the tournament. These things knocked many highly skilled players out of the top 8, which is the only reason I made it as far as I did. Basically, I'm a good enough player that I can only beat a top-level player if I'm playing on a map and side that grossly favors my squad, and that I'm familiar with - and even then I'm quite capable of losing, but at least I have a chance at winning.

But more important that the impact of these factors on who wins, is their impact on the level of enjoyment. The guys I played in the tournament were all good sports, even when they had to run their JWM squads from the bad side of Mustafar, but it just wasn't as much fun as it could have been.

I hope WotC puts some effort into reforming approved play, and I hope their goal is to make it more fun for everyone. In my opinion, that means that losing map or side should never hand a skilled player an auto-loss against a player of my calibre. I know it's a dice game and luck will always play a big role, but the map roll, side roll, a few key initiative rolls, and the occasional disintegration, all have the potential to turn an exciting and close game into a joyless rout. That's not good for anyone.

I also think that when the prize money gets too big, it brings out the worst in people - lying, cheating, stealing, that kind of thing. I think a $5K tournament is about perfect - big enough to prepare for and fight hard for, but small enough that nobody would quit their job if they won.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:49 pm 
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barzillai wrote:
I'm glad the article pointed out that map rolls, side rolls, and the occasional early disintegration had a large impact on the tournament. These things knocked many highly skilled players out of the top 8, which is the only reason I made it as far as I did. Basically, I'm a good enough player that I can only beat a top-level player if I'm playing on a map and side that grossly favors my squad, and that I'm familiar with - and even then I'm quite capable of losing, but at least I have a chance at winning.

But more important that the impact of these factors on who wins, is their impact on the level of enjoyment. The guys I played in the tournament were all good sports, even when they had to run their JWM squads from the bad side of Mustafar, but it just wasn't as much fun as it could have been.

I hope WotC puts some effort into reforming approved play, and I hope their goal is to make it more fun for everyone. In my opinion, that means that losing map or side should never hand a skilled player an auto-loss against a player of my calibre. I know it's a dice game and luck will always play a big role, but the map roll, side roll, a few key initiative rolls, and the occasional disintegration, all have the potential to turn an exciting and close game into a joyless rout. That's not good for anyone.

I also think that when the prize money gets too big, it brings out the worst in people - lying, cheating, stealing, that kind of thing. I think a $5K tournament is about perfect - big enough to prepare for and fight hard for, but small enough that nobody would quit their job if they won.


We are in Agreement Barillai. In fact the 2 games I lost I could have won on my map with ease. But to me that is the Problem with the Competative game and where it is at right now and with Korriban becoming legal appears to be where it is going. The thing I hate right now with a Passion is Map roll determining so much. Don't get me wrong I abused it as much as possible at Gencon but I had to to stay Competative. I do not like being able to look at someone's squad/Map and look at my Squad/map and Roll for map know pretty much how the game si going to turn out. And BTW the 2 games i lost on opponent's map wasn't by much. That is what was annoying to me to have totally outplayed my opponent and still losing. Now granted Dice Happen Like Aurra missing 7 of 8 against based JWM's but even that Game I win last init I have a Good chance of winning the Game. Basically here is what I want and whether you agree or not is a matter of choice. I want the shooter toned down. I want Beat sticks that can actually make it through the shooters and able to do something on the other side. It would force people to play melee Characters. and when that Happens I think the game becomes a whole lot more about skill. When you are moving your characters within 6 of your opponents Your moves mean lot more then when you mobile out shot and mobile Back. The next thing I do not like is how they have boosted lower costing Figs to be Dangerous and in some cases Very Dangerous. When did Vader, Luke, or even like Obi-Wan or Yoda have a tough time taking out mulitple Grunts? Now you put your 55 point Yoda in range of even 2 AA's with a Itorian (about 36 pts) and your in serious trouble. Not that swarm squads are easy to play but it is difficult when every figure on the field can hurt you.

That is it for my rant.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:49 pm 
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homer_sapien wrote:
My best guess is we'll get some small improvement, but nothing all that noticable. SWM will always be the red headed stepchild of Wizards game lines.


I think Wizards are/were too scared of doing anything that would upset LFL, and rightly so from a business perspective. I certainly wouldn't want to risk that licence.

But with four SWM sets in 2008, revitalised RPG line (thank you, thank you, thank you...) and the apparent doom of Dreamblade I think Star Wars could be in line for some Wizards love :P

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:37 pm 
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I thought it was 3 SWM and 1 SSB set. I hope it's only 3 sets so I don't have to spend much more than $900 in a year for toys.

pre-empt edit: including FU 4 sets coming up....

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:18 pm 
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I'm hoping its 3 SWM sets and 1 SSB set next year too, but I haven't seen anything that even hints at that being the case.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:32 am 
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homer_sapien wrote:
I'm hoping its 3 SWM sets and 1 SSB set next year too, but I haven't seen anything that even hints at that being the case.

The article in Game Trade said four sets in 2008, but was strongly hinted that one of those was SSB. Remember that WOTC still refer to SSB as a SWM set.

I'm struggling to save for FU, so next year will be difficult thanks to the bank demanding stupid things like mortgage repayments :P

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