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 Post subject: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:42 am 
One of The Ones
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Wow, the game has really come a long way. Let's compare:

Boba Fett - Rebel Storm 50 points - Fringe
110 HP
20 Defense
+12 Attack
20 Damage

Special Abilities
Unique; Double Attack; Accurate Shot; Bounty Hunter +4; Flight

Considered one of the best pieces for its day, it's barely even playable at all anymore. And now...

Han Solo - Legacy of the Force - 50 points - New Republic
90 HP
19 Defense
+10 Attack
20 Damage

Special Abilities
Unique; Double Attack; Accurate Shot; Greater Mobile; Evade; Never Tell Me the Odds; Disruptive

Granted, Han is faction-specific, but beyond that I think it really goes to show the effort that's been put into making the game tournament-oriented.

Goodbye original 4 sets; alas, we barely knew ye. ~DSBoom

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:10 am 
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I think you'll see as much of the first four sets played post-lotf as we did pre-lotf. Your demonstration is pretty shocking, but the (admittedly few) pieces that are used from those sets will continue to be used.


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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:02 pm 
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RS Boba also had Flight and Bounty Hunter +4 :boba:

If the other newer Bobas weren't so great for their cost, I think with Garm this Boba would have actually seen some action lately.

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:44 pm 
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R5Don4 wrote:
RS Boba also had Flight and Bounty Hunter +4 :boba:

If the other newer Bobas weren't so great for their cost, I think with Garm this Boba would have actually seen some action lately.


Fixed.

So, hmm, Bounty Hunter +4 and Flight vs. Cunning, Evade, GREATER Mobile, Disruptive, and NTMTO. Tough choice. :P

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Boris wrote:
R5Don4 wrote:
RS Boba also had Flight and Bounty Hunter +4 :boba:

If the other newer Bobas weren't so great for their cost, I think with Garm this Boba would have actually seen some action lately.


Fixed.

So, hmm, Bounty Hunter +4 and Flight vs. Cunning, Evade, GREATER Mobile, Disruptive, and NTMTO. Tough choice. :P


The new Han has cunning attack? That ability wasn't in the description in the first post.

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:40 pm 
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Boris wrote:
Wow, the game has really come a long way. Let's compare:

Boba Fett - Rebel Storm 50 points - Fringe
110 HP
20 Defense
+12 Attack
20 Damage

Han Solo - Legacy of the Force - 50 points - New Republic
90 HP
19 Defense
+10 Attack
20 Damage



-20HP, -2 Attack, -1 Defense, plus Han is stuck in NR while Boba is Fringe and can go anywhere. Boba is better. :D

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:38 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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This comparison doesn't make Boba look bad at all....the balance of the game is still intact. Some changes and upgrades, but evrything still has a place (except Duros Mercs)

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:58 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Where did the Han preview come from? I've looked around but can't find it anywhere


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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Look harder. :)

The thread was up to 12 pages last time I looked.

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:09 pm 
One of The Ones
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Xanthan wrote:
Boris wrote:
R5Don4 wrote:
RS Boba also had Flight and Bounty Hunter +4 :boba:

If the other newer Bobas weren't so great for their cost, I think with Garm this Boba would have actually seen some action lately.


Fixed.

So, hmm, Bounty Hunter +4 and Flight vs. Cunning, Evade, GREATER Mobile, Disruptive, and NTMTO. Tough choice. :P


The new Han has cunning attack? That ability wasn't in the description in the first post.


It's in the picture of the card on page 4.

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:10 pm 
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homer_sapien wrote:
Boris wrote:
Wow, the game has really come a long way. Let's compare:

Boba Fett - Rebel Storm 50 points - Fringe
110 HP
20 Defense
+12 Attack
20 Damage

Han Solo - Legacy of the Force - 50 points - New Republic
90 HP
19 Defense
+10 Attack
20 Damage



-20HP, -2 Attack, -1 Defense, plus Han is stuck in NR while Boba is Fringe and can go anywhere. Boba is better. :D


Han has Evade and Greater Mobile. Nuff said.

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:14 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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von_Richthofen wrote:
Old man Solo

90
19
+10
20

Accurate
Cunning
Distruptive
Double
Evade
Greater mobile
NTMTO


:o

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:21 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Eh, he is a VERY good NR piece. That doesn't make Boba obsolete.

Boba's got access to any faction and any commander (that affects uniques), this Han doesn't.

Still the best NR piece to date.

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:49 pm 
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Boris wrote:
homer_sapien wrote:
Boris wrote:
Wow, the game has really come a long way. Let's compare:

Boba Fett - Rebel Storm 50 points - Fringe
110 HP
20 Defense
+12 Attack
20 Damage

Han Solo - Legacy of the Force - 50 points - New Republic
90 HP
19 Defense
+10 Attack
20 Damage



-20HP, -2 Attack, -1 Defense, plus Han is stuck in NR while Boba is Fringe and can go anywhere. Boba is better. :D


Han has Evade and Greater Mobile. Nuff said.


I was kidding. Note the :D

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:01 pm 
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This Boba hasn't been too great since BH, for the obvious reason. But that comparison is from the very FIRST set, to the LATEST. And even then Boba doesn't come off that bad. And as most have pointed out, Boba can go anywhere, while Han is stuck. You should have compared Emperor Palpatine to Yoda OD. Personally I think Palpatine is one of the best commanders, anyone can use his force, and can do some nice damage. RS and CS aren't that great, some ROTS are still good. While on the other hand some ROTS and CS are meta pieces. Labeling an entire set "obsolete" is rather broad and careless. But I can agree with you that alot of early pieces are now nothing more then nice little nick-nacks, but that's what happens, if the game didn't change it would grow stale and would wither and die. Change keeps it rejuvenated.

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:56 pm 
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For a company making a game like this, they want a tiny bit of (insert your chosen label here) growth/change/powercreep. They need to make it small, but...feelable. That keeps people interested and generates interest/sales of their product. Problems arise when the change is too drastic or too weak. Too drastic, and people complain and then changes/restarts have to happen (see Mage Knight 2.0 - and the total failure that followed). If the change is too little, then people complain that it's weak compared to the previous sets and don't buy it.

Heck, the Melee recost that WotC is close to game breaking, but I'm also glad it happened and I'm not complaining about it in the least (I like running Jedi squads :))

Now, with that in mind, let's look at Boba RS and Han, GH. As was already said, Boba was highly playable up until BH and was only replaced by a much higher cost figure. But they have very different strengths and weaknesses. Is Han GH more powerful than Boba RS? I'd say a bit, but not markedly so. Compare Han GH to Nym (48 pts). IMO, Han beats him hands down, as does Boba RS.

My general impression with LotF is that it has a feel very similar to Bounty Hunters - BH was all about high Damage output, but with generally very fragile figures. LotF (even before the big spoiler) feels very fragile, but very "gimmicky" instead of with high damage output. It is a good balance IMO, and I'm glad Rob designed the set the way he did.


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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:56 am 
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DarkLordVerjal wrote:
This Boba hasn't been too great since BH, for the obvious reason. But that comparison is from the very FIRST set, to the LATEST. And even then Boba doesn't come off that bad. And as most have pointed out, Boba can go anywhere, while Han is stuck. You should have compared Emperor Palpatine to Yoda OD. Personally I think Palpatine is one of the best commanders, anyone can use his force, and can do some nice damage. RS and CS aren't that great, some ROTS are still good. While on the other hand some ROTS and CS are meta pieces. Labeling an entire set "obsolete" is rather broad and careless. But I can agree with you that alot of early pieces are now nothing more then nice little nick-nacks, but that's what happens, if the game didn't change it would grow stale and would wither and die. Change keeps it rejuvenated.



I agree that change keeps the game rejuvenated, not a bad thing. I think though that a lot of you ( if not all of you) forget that when someone make a statement such as the old sets are now worthless or no longer playable, that member is speaking for him/her self and as such is right from there point of view.
A lot of you mite well think that there are a lot of still playable unique from RS or CS, ROTS, that fine and right from your point of view. Here i agree with Boris i no longer use any of the uniques from thous earlier sets, not that they are so bad it's more that there are better choices now out there.
A lot of us really do think that these older sets are obsolete, i don't think that is a careless statement at all. If that's he's opinion of them that's fine, just as it's fine that you still have a use for them. I personally only still use a few of the C/UC from thous older sets.
Take Veers as an example, He is still a good commander for 21 points. But for me personally i just prefer Piett so no longer use the RS Veers. It's very much the same with all the unique from the older sets there is someone better in my opinion. So does that make the older ones obsolete????? Well if i no longer use them i would have to say yes from my point of view.


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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:24 am 
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I dislike this piece for other reasons. It is a no brainer Han to use in NR. Before there were options, do I want the beatstick han Scoundrel? Do I want NTMTO? Now I can have both. Yes, there are still RH and Stormie, but this Han completely replaces two others. Add in that I don't need Jaina to get this Han, and I think he is a much better option (if not the best and only option) for a NR Han.

I dislike it when WotC decides what I run instead of me doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:37 am 
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emr131 wrote:
I dislike this piece for other reasons. It is a no brainer Han to use in NR. Before there were options, do I want the beatstick han Scoundrel? Do I want NTMTO? Now I can have both. Yes, there are still RH and Stormie, but this Han completely replaces two others. Add in that I don't need Jaina to get this Han, and I think he is a much better option (if not the best and only option) for a NR Han.

I dislike it when WotC decides what I run instead of me doing it.


I think Han in Stormtrooper Armor will continue to be a very playable piece with Jaina, especially with the new Kyle (if what we've heard about his stats are true). Something like this:

Han in Armor, Jaina, Mara Jedi (A&E), Lobot, Jedi Spirit Luke, Kyle Katarn.

That should be somewhere less than 200 points with plenty of room for Ugnaughts, and the opportunity to bring in an MTB with Lobot if you need.

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 Post subject: Re: It's been a long road... (SPOILERS INSIDE - BE YE WARNED)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:50 am 
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I might have spoke too soon about the lack of need for stormie or RH in NR, but my main point is that for NR, you just won't take scoundrel or rogue ever again.


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