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Set up Change Idea
https://www.swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2296		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  billiv15 [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Set up Change Idea
Nickname suggested in another thread that he was considering submitting a change to the set up areas as follows.

"I've been thinking about that one for a while and considered the following suggestion for the floor rules (not sure if I ever mentioned it for feedback from the huddled masses...)

CURRENT:
All miniatures must start within four squares of the shortest edge chosen by the player who gets to choose first.

REVISED:
All miniatures must start with some part of their base within four squares of the shortest edge chosen by the player who gets to choose first.

The CURRENT wording could actually be interpreted this way anyway, but for whatever reason it creates a new form of counting that defines an area rather than counting like Range is counted (the shortest distance.)

This gives huges a 2 square head start, and helps on a couple maps with problem start areas (notably Bespin right and Coruscant left)"

Now, is there any reason not to do this? I think its a logical move to deal with the gimping on the two problem maps for huges. It might help open up huge play in other formats as well.
Author:  DarkLordVerjal [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
Well the only problem I can fathm is someone who plays on Jedi Temple(fan created map) where someone will see an oppertunity to be a jerk. Example:
Theres a part of the map on the left where theres a pit in the starting area that is 4 squares up, someone may place there pieces there, giving them an 8 square up. Not really fair. Thats the only this I can see going wrong.
Author:  LoboStele [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
I don't think that would work, Verjal. I'm not 100% certain which map you're talking about, but what Bill and NickName are suggesting, at least from what I can gather, is that the farthest a piece would be allowed to set up would be with a 3 square gap to the edge. In other words, with [] as spaces, and X as occupied by Huge character:

[][][]
[][][]XXX
[][][]XXX
[][][]XXX
[][][]

Such that at least some part of the huge piece is within those first 4 squares. It should allow for no more abuse of starting position on any one map over another. I both like and don't like the fact of how it changes the potential for map abuse with Bespin. One of the reasons I tend to run Bespin in 100 or 150 point games is to have the option to hurt someone's squad if they run a huge. However, I could certainly see a rule change like that allowing some nice non-Rigid huges to be played at 100 or 150 more often. Honestly, Bespin is the only reason, IMO, why most non-Rigid huges still don't see any play at 100 or 150, even though all the other maps work great for them.
Author:  billiv15 [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
It also will allow huges, which everyone generally complains, have a hard time moving, a slight movement advantage early on. The get a bit of a jump start, which really helps make them a little more fair.
Author:  Grand Moff Boris [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
Sounds good to me.

Another option to consider might be to just change it to a 6-square start area for all characters instead.
Seems simpler, but maybe not. Either change would need playtesting.
Author:  Aeimnestus [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
Hmm, that's a very good idea! :)
Author:  fingersandteeth [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
Boris wrote:

Another option to consider might be to just change it to a 6-square start area for all characters instead.


this option does nothing to help huges though. All you do here is give all miniatures quicker access to gambit and huges still stay relatively immobile.

I like the idea of huges being able to take point in the way Bill/Nickname suggested. They are so hampered by movement that this can only help their cause.
Author:  Grambo [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
I personally love this suggested change... LOVE. Not like... LOVE. In fact, I'm going to propose we institute this immediately in the GVL as a testing ground.
Author:  LoboStele [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
That's fine with me. We can re-post that idea into the 'Rules Comments' thread for changes to implement on Feb 1. Actually, I meant to bring up the idea with my local play group last night and completely forgot about it.
Author:  punxnbutter [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
Seems like a logical change. With recosting and slightly better starting position huges might actually be played
Author:  Sithdragon13 [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
I like it. The only people it affects are the huges, and only a very small extent- larges. It may even make Huges playable in 150 as tehy would no longer get stuck on the bad maps.

I like it!
Author:  Solodan [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
I agree - help the huges out. I feel that the gaps on Bespin are just there for artistic reasons, but it ends up screwing huges bigtime.

The only concern is "does this have the potential to allow certain Huge figs to get early shots/missles off that they couldn't have gotten before?"

Personally, Huges are so overcosted historically that this change won't unbalance anything off the top of my head. If those 2 extra spaces are really going to help, generally most of the huges paid a premium in order to get that advantage.
Author:  homer_sapien [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
Solodan wrote:
The only concern is "does this have the potential to allow certain Huge figs to get early shots/missles off that they couldn't have gotten before?"


Without getting out my maps to check possible new lines of fire I'm going to guess it won't be too much of a difference. I think most players know by now not to clump thier squad together when facing an opposing squad with AoE abilities so it shouldn't change too much for missles. Also if a huge is started out front like that its pretty much going to have a bullseye painted on it for every shooting piece in the opposing squad.
Author:  The Madman [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
While I applaud the Creativity and the "adaptivness" of our members...
I have to say I don't like it

Not because it's a bad idea (as I said, very creative and fresh)
I just don't like that
"We" the players have to do ALL the adaption...

Bill, Boris, Jedicartographer, just to name a few... have all made LEAPS for "Us" to further enjoy this game

Where is Wizards in all this?

Why are they not on the cusp comming up with these ideas and slating Tile Wars, Epic and new maps for us?!

why are we doing all the hard work?
(and getting no credit...)
Author:  Sithdragon13 [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
The Madman wrote:
why are we doing all the hard work?
(and getting no credit...)

Because its OUR game. That is one of the things i really love about this game. While i know it gets frustrating that we dont see more help from WotC, its the simple fact that this is a game that is loved, supported, cared for and run by the fans playing it. It is what will keep this game going for a very long time.
Author:  Xanthan [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
Sithdragon13 wrote:
The Madman wrote:
why are we doing all the hard work?
(and getting no credit...)

Because its OUR game. That is one of the things i really love about this game. While i know it gets frustrating that we dont see more help from WotC, its the simple fact that this is a game that is loved, supported, cared for and run by the fans playing it. It is what will keep this game going for a very long time.


I agree, WOTC did everything they could to support Dreamblade, but look at what happened to that game.
Author:  Grand Moff Boris [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
Xanthan wrote:
Sithdragon13 wrote:
The Madman wrote:
why are we doing all the hard work?
(and getting no credit...)

Because its OUR game. That is one of the things i really love about this game. While i know it gets frustrating that we dont see more help from WotC, its the simple fact that this is a game that is loved, supported, cared for and run by the fans playing it. It is what will keep this game going for a very long time.


I agree, WOTC did everything they could to support Dreamblade, but look at what happened to that game.


Well on the flip side WotC makes all the decisions for Magic, and it's been going strong for 15 years.

I don't think one really has anything to do with the other.
Author:  hothie [ Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Set up Change Idea
I like the idea. I'll mention it at our games this weekend.
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