DD, of course being Dynamic Duo. I ran out of room in the title.

That is the question. Moses and I were talking about hosting DD again as part of the schedule of events at GenCon this year, and I know the point restriction was an issue of contention for some.

What I am looking for is objective, constructive discussion of the question. Simply having a personal preference against the restriction isn't enough for me. I want to hear from people who may have tried the format without the restriction or who can make logical, fair points about the benefit of removing the restriction beyond, "well I don't like the exactly 100 point idea."

Tell me WHY you don't like it and WHY you think the format would be better without it, or, tell me WHY you do like it the way it is, if that's the case.

I have about a week before I have to tell Moses how I want it worded in the description.

Okay, I didn't play, but I was standing there when the whole thing was starting, and people were like, "I didn't know it had to be exactly 100!" And then they had to try and find an exactly 100 point team before the tourney started.
I think the EXACTLY 100 restriction should stay in play. It adds a slight amount of strategy to the squad build. Otherwise, we're gonna see many different combinations of Boba/??, Vader/??, etc. With a Boba, BH/Han, RH build, if you win init, you can dish out 90 dmg. Make that Boba, Merc, and it can be 110! That could be devastating! Yes, Bane/Lando can actually do 130 if the opponent goes first, and has a force user that Bane can base. But still, there's a few "IFS" there.

***Keep the 100 exact!
***Add Tile Wars!
***Scrap Utinni!

My opinions.

This brings up another point I meant to mention earlier and forgot:

We're probably going to change the activations per phase to just one at a time to make it a little more balanced. Making your opponent move both his/her pieces early game and then getting in full damage without any chance to respond late game is the weak spot of the format IMO.



Utinni will be WotC's decision (They asked Pasttimes to add that to the schedule last year.)

Oh, I know, I'm just putting this out there for anyone who has contact with Pasttimes, mainly Jim. Why try to do something again that nearly failed last time? Let WotC know the feelings of the community!
Dang it, did I get my soap box out again? Someone hide that thing from me, I swear

I played Untinni ONCE...The worst possible thing ever, i prayed for it to end.

Ha
Boris you should have made this a "Poll"


I think the Restriction SHOULD remain in effect-

there are too many "Other" combinations that can be "abused" or pulled off at 98 or 99 points...

In agreement with the above sentiments:
It's meant to be a challenge and making it EXACTLY 100 points not only adds to the challenge but also means ther is a "Limit" to the playing field that even the most NEW player can manage

IF,
if there would be a change, I would suggest that Faction rules be excluded (That's on the "big" side)
or
that Gambit not be counted

I think the other guys have hit it right on the head, the restriction to exactly 100 points should stay in place, but if you're having an event for it, state clearly in what ever sort of advertisements you have that your squad has to be "exactly 100 points" to try to avoid as much confusion as possible. maybe big bold capitals "SQUADS MUST BE 100 POINTS FOR DYNAMIC DUO. NO MORE, NO LESS"

Either is fine. There will be a few best squads (some will say "abusive") either way. The important thing is making the rules clear in advance.

Remove it.
I don't play DD because of it.
I don't play all factions so for me it's a limited format.
But that's me.

I'm almost positive all advertisement for the event said just that, but some people can apparently roll dice, yet not read instructions.

100 points exactly is part of the strategy.

While I do agree that lifting the faction restriction would increase the possibilities, it includes:

Sidious, DLOTS + Luke COTF (While no MOTF 2, having the abilitity to Use the Force in two consecutive rounds would be game winning)

Kota+Mara Jedi (Both can potentially hit both of the opponent's characters each round, at least the first time)

Darth Vader, JH +Han STA.....

But this may be for the better, FU has opened up some potentially lethal combos that were already legal under faction rules.

NM on the first one, DLOTS is 61 not 51....sorry did it from memory.

There seems to be some confusion, so just for clarification, here are the Dynamic Duo rules as they currently stand:

Build a squad containing two characters that is exactly 100 points. Normal faction rules apply. Special abilities, commander effects, and Force powers that bring additional characters into the squad (such as Reserves or Reinforcements) may not be used. Each phase, players activate one character at a time instead of two. Only maps that are legal for 100 point DCI play are legal for this format.

Of course, there currently are no CE's or Force Powers that allow bringing in extra characters but after seeing a possible loophole with TFU from the previous wording, I changed it.

And yes, it was stated in the GenCon catalog description last year "exactly 100 points" but more than 1 person overlooked that. I can understand how that happened.

I have only played the format a couple times and not in tourneys, but have read a lot of the comments on the boards. Without the "exactly 100" restriction, how is it different from normal games. I can choose to field a squad of 2 characters at 97 or 98 or whatever if I wanted in a 100 tourney as the regular rules are now. The only change would be the 1 activation and knowing your opponent will have the same number of characters. I think the restriction is what makes the challenge and the format fresh. I would say 'No' on the idea of lifting faction restrictions.

I played in the tornament at GenCon and had a brain fart that morning and brought LAndo DS and Exar, instead of Bane. Moses helped me out and let me use his Bane. I brought the right cards just no the right figs. As I recall there was only one person of the 10-12 that played that had a big problem because he did not read the rules.

I love the exactly 100 point format. Why? It makes you think at least a little bit when you are building the squad. plus finding people that work together at 100 is tough and I like the challenge. Like many before me have stated what is the challange of running Fett BH and Aurra?

At exactly 100 points, for me at least, make sgeting new set even more exciting. After the intial wow who did I get and what powers do they have, I tend to think, this could be a cool Dynamic dou squad.

I could go either way on the discussion about factions. I do like it the way it is, because it does put some restriction on it, but I also see how it could open up new parings. When I suggested to our LGS that we run DD for one of our weekly tournaments, the first response was "are there that many different pairings to make it interesting?" I then informed her more about this type of format and she was cool with it. She was also concerned that people might have the pices they need. But between SpencJedi and my self we have about two of every piece and are willing to let people barrow them.

With other Gen Con stuff: I know it might be a bit off topic, but I am on a roll.
Utni - Seemed to not draw very many folks. I think they only had three players till Dean stepped in so they could play a sactioned tournament. Like others have said, "Why do it again?" One point here is that I would quess many poeple are going to be more interested in playing the league then playing Utinni, since KOTOR will be released one week prior to the con.

Hoth Battles - They were fun to watch, but have you guys thought about doing one each day, except maybe not on Saturday?

League play - is it possbile to have one judge set aside to whatch over the league play? I know all one would have to do is grap a judge and ask them a question, but I feel really bed when I am playing a have to go get a judge that is watching a more competitve tournamnet. I think it would help new players get the right rules as opposed to getting "well this is how I think it goes" or "we have been playing this way all weekend" This happened to me last year, and I didn't want to be the guy among 7 other guys that said you all are playing it wrong and how ever told you this didn't explain it right. part of it is that I was trying to trade pices with them as well and didn't want me calling them out on rules to effect that part of the weekend. Anyway I think it would help. But there might be more experienced players playing league this year because of the release of KOTOR.

Just my thoughts this morning have a good one

I don't care either way. I predict the builds will be stale regardless of any restrictions at such point level. I would sooner see it go to a Terrific Trio at 150 points (and allow for less point builds) to really open the game concept up.

At our LGS we play DD/TT all the time, but we remove faction restrictions (and allow for less points). They are highly fun games as soon as some of the restrictions are lifted to allow diverse squad making.

As far as uttini is concerned, bring it on, I got my tactics broker all ready to go.

I say remove the restriction - 100 point exactly really restricts the building to few squads. I could probably spend a few hours, determine all the viable squads, and pretty quickly figure out what would be a good "meta" choice. So even though I don't have the most powerful option of the "up-to" - I know what I'm up against and what the best choice is overall. If it was "up-to" 100, someone could potentially bring in a goofy squad that trumps me. Heck, if it can be "up to" I might just run Francor and Leia, HC and hope I roll well. I do not think that the restriction benefits squad building enough to warrant the hassle and the potential creativity that players forfeit in order to gain some measure of balance.

Secondly, from a marketing perspective, it just doesn't "Feel Right" when in order to enter an event, a player needs to read the fine print. You'll get the die-hards, but also exclude some casual players. I say this because the rules for SWM is, and always has been, up to 100 points. By having the event mimic the game in every other aspect, but force extra rules on squad building, in my mind, could potentially sour someone to the whole experience. The first time I heard "dynamic duo" I didn't know it was limited to 100. This was online, so I had a chance to research it. However, when I did find out it was exactly, I felt dissapointed. I can only imagine how it would feel if I had budgeted valuable con time and made that mistake. I'd not want to make that mistake again.

I also think 100 point is too high. Much of my favorite jedi figs cost much less than 50 points. Much of the lower point jedi (30-40) don't stand a chance even 2v1 than some of the anti-jedi beatsticks (Bane and Vader) 60,70,or 80 would be much more reasonable and also eliminate some of the most abusive combos. Personally, I'd run it at 65 or 70. Plenty of room to fit two mid-cost jedi together, or a bigger jedi and support, etc.

Also, the odd number (i.e not 100 or 150, numbers that signifiy DCI sanctioned events) imply that a person should read the rules a bit more.

For any polling porposes - I'd not play in a DD exact 100. I'd consider DD up-to 100. I'd probably play at some funky level because the squad building would be more of a challenge.

Edit: sentence structure.

No need. I believe the full list with every possible option was posted on the WotC board right around the release of TFU. A search there for Dynamic Duo should turn it up.

Wouldn't the same be true if the restriction is removed?

Top choices (IN ORDER)-
Boba BH, Grand Admiral Thrawn
Boba Mercenary, Grand Admiral Thrawn
Boba BH, Aurra Sing (CS)
General Windu, Jedi Weapon Master
Qui-Gon Jinn JM, Mace Windu


One of the things that will shake things up with DD (not to mention every other SWM event) is that GenCon is coming on the heels of a brand new set, so it's less likely that the very best option will be known right away, and even less likely that everyone will have all the R's and VR's to play that choice.

EDIT - Also of note:

The squad that was NOT considered the "top" meta choice during the DD event at GenCon last year ended up finishing first. (General Windu, Plo Koon)

I might also note that with 8 people and 4 rounds no one went undefeated.

A Bossk squad made it to the final 8 in the championship... does not mean it deserved to be there.