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Revan: awesome commander, but i feel his force abilities are a little on the weak side
Poll ended at Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:46 am
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 Post subject: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:46 am 
Black Sun Thug
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according to the books lightsaber deflection is one of the first skills a jedi learns. I personally feel that if a jedi has the skill lightsaber block, then deflect should be mandatory as well. after all, all jedi could deflect things to one degree or another, some were particularly bad at it, but they could still get a couple deflections in

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:32 pm 
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Just because they must learn how to deflect does not mean the are good at it. In the miniatures game, some of a Jedi's ability to avoid taking damage is reflected in their higher defensive scores. So, having both Block and Deflect isn't as necessary. On top of that, every ability like Block or Deflect adds cost to the character. Revan is already the most expensive piece in the game right now, so I really don't think it would be worth the extra cost to give him Deflect as well.

Lastly, they don't give Block and Deflect to every single lightsaber-wielding character because that would make the game more dull. Part of the beauty of the SWM game is the choices you have to make in both squad construction and play strategy due to the different abilities that a character has.

If you're having particular trouble with Revan taking too much damage from non-melee attacks, which makes you wish he had Deflect, then perhaps you need to try some new strategies that do not allow him to be shot at so often.

On a similar note, would you want Lord Vader to have Block and Deflect??? Lord Vader's lack of those skills is exactly what makes him a balanced figure. If he had those defensive abilities as well as the powerhouse of offensive abilities that he already has, he would be nigh unstoppable.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:38 pm 
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i believe that my title is misleading, i wasn't meaning to say that all jedi should have them i was saying that if you gave a jedi block, you should give him deflect, not that all jedi should have both.


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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:57 pm 
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What LoboStele said.

Just because they have Block does not mean they should not have Deflect. It all adds variety to the game.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:01 pm 
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Still, I think most of it comes down to the cost of the miniature, and how it is designed to be played.

Honestly, it's hard enough to build a squad around Revan as it is. Would you want him to be a few more points more just so he could have Deflect? Not me. On top of that, the mini is designed to be played as a Commander and a Melee beatstick. The Sith don't have access to Booming Voice, so he needs to be close to the action anyways to give his CE of +4 to Attack. His combination of Lightsaber Duelist, 21 base Defense, and LS Block shows that he's designed to battle other Melee opponents, particularly Melee Force users.

Just like many other Jedi are designed that way. Obi-Wan and Luke typically have Lightsaber Deflect, but that was because they are both known to be fairly defensive people, and didn't get into melee Lightsaber combat unless absolutely necessary. It's not until after ROTJ that Luke starts to become a really good Lightsaber duelist, so it makes sense that the only miniature of Luke with Block is the NR Jedi Master version. So it fits the characters in both those situations.

A couple versions of Mace have Block, and one has Riposte, but none have Deflect. Well, that also fits well with Mace's style of Vaapad fighting, of getting up in the opponent's face.

Sure, all Jedi have the basic skills to deflect a blaster bolt, but some are much better at Melee based combat, and melee defensive maneuvers, then ranged defensive maneuvers.

I'd be interested in some form of free block/deflect ability that requires a higher save (like 16) to show a Jedi's inherent abilities, but I don't think that just because they have the regular Save 11 version of one, that they should have the other as well.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:06 pm 
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greatwarlord wrote:
i believe that my title is misleading, i wasn't meaning to say that all jedi should have them i was saying that if you gave a jedi block, you should give him deflect, not that all jedi should have both.

Absolutely not. Imagine CS Yoda or Loda with reflect and block. Good luck ever hurting him. As soon as you add in Master of the Force 2 or 3, then you have to be really careful about defensive abilities.


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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:09 pm 
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I said yes, but I'm refering to the Non-uniques. Guardians, Consulars, Sentinals, all of the Non-unique jedi/sith.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:29 pm 
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emr131 wrote:
Absolutely not. Imagine CS Yoda or Loda with reflect and block. Good luck ever hurting him. As soon as you add in Master of the Force 2 or 3, then you have to be really careful about defensive abilities.


With all of the recosting of Jedi now and what appears to be a lot of Force renewal it does not make sense to have both powers. It'd be nice if all jedi had one or the other to help bring out their personalities in the game, but that's as far as I would go with it. Having both would be overkill and anytime you are attacked it'd be a defense roll....

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:55 pm 
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The thing is, most jedi in the Star Wars universe probably knew how to deflect/block attacks, but the SWM game only gives characters some of their force powers, most jedi probably have too many force powers to have it represented in the SWM game. But I heard the Star Wars RPG represents many of the jedi/sith's abilities.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:04 pm 
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I agree that the RPG is better suited to go for the gusto on full force powers. Minis are a simplified version so all the interactions between saber styles would step on their turf :atst:

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:12 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Yep I agree with Lobo on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:53 am 
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NO. :saber:

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:20 pm 
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All Jedi are taught to deflect and block attacks against them, but I always looked at it with the viewpoint that characters with deflect or block are just especially good at that particular ability.


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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:27 pm 
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First, Revan has great force abilities. Corruption is turning into one of my favorite abilities. WHen this is used on a 40hp figure, it really screws with your opponents activations.

Second, Dark Armor is better than deflect - Its free, it can be uses multiple times per round and he can use his force to reroll. Yes, it only blocks half of the usual damage, but that's a tradeoff I'll gladly take.

Third, my feeling is that pretty much every jedi has some sort of block/deflect incorporated into the higher HP and DEF ratings that they get over similarly costed figures. Only figures that have shown above average skill in a certain style (blocking/deflecting) should be reflected on a mini. Even then, these superbly skilled may not always have that aspect of their character reflected in the the mini printed.


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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:22 pm 
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I voted that he's force powers are fine as they am but While i do agree that NOT ALL Jedi should have both block and deflect, to say that ANY character who did have both would be unstopable or nearly unstopable is a load of ****. There are enough Jedi characters now with FR1 to prove this would not happen as most still run out of force points. The higher defence that jedi's have is no longer that high with all the SA & CE out there.
As i said i do agree that not all should have it, but the reasons most of you are putting down are very feeble. With all the SA & CE it seem that even a Ewok can hit a Jedi now LOL. :Ewok: :saber: :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:50 pm 
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dreadtech wrote:
I voted that he's force powers are fine as they am but While i do agree that NOT ALL Jedi should have both block and deflect, to say that ANY character who did have both would be unstopable or nearly unstopable is a load of ****. There are enough Jedi characters now with FR1 to prove this would not happen as most still run out of force points. The higher defence that jedi's have is no longer that high with all the SA & CE out there.
As i said i do agree that not all should have it, but the reasons most of you are putting down are very feeble. With all the SA & CE it seem that even a Ewok can hit a Jedi now LOL. :Ewok: :saber: :shock:


A character with both block and deflect and has FR 1,2, or 3 and MOTF2 or higher can make a character really difficult to hit IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:38 pm 
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Xanthan wrote:
dreadtech wrote:
I voted that he's force powers are fine as they am but While i do agree that NOT ALL Jedi should have both block and deflect, to say that ANY character who did have both would be unstopable or nearly unstopable is a load of ****. There are enough Jedi characters now with FR1 to prove this would not happen as most still run out of force points. The higher defence that jedi's have is no longer that high with all the SA & CE out there.
As i said i do agree that not all should have it, but the reasons most of you are putting down are very feeble. With all the SA & CE it seem that even a Ewok can hit a Jedi now LOL. :Ewok: :saber: :shock:


A character with both block and deflect and has FR 1,2, or 3 and MOTF2 or higher can make a character really difficult to hit IMO.



No one said FR2 or 3 for that matter or MOTF2, the thing was having both Block and deflect at the same time. Having everything that a jedi can possibly have was never mentioned at all. Adding things to make your point valid does not work. ~DSBoom

The thread title was
BLOCK and DEFLECT MANDATORY

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:57 pm 
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dreadtech wrote:
Xanthan wrote:
dreadtech wrote:
I voted that he's force powers are fine as they am but While i do agree that NOT ALL Jedi should have both block and deflect, to say that ANY character who did have both would be unstopable or nearly unstopable is a load of ****. There are enough Jedi characters now with FR1 to prove this would not happen as most still run out of force points. The higher defence that jedi's have is no longer that high with all the SA & CE out there.
As i said i do agree that not all should have it, but the reasons most of you are putting down are very feeble. With all the SA & CE it seem that even a Ewok can hit a Jedi now LOL. :Ewok: :saber: :shock:


A character with both block and deflect and has FR 1,2, or 3 and MOTF2 or higher can make a character really difficult to hit IMO.



No one said FR2 or 3 for that matter or MOTF2, the thing was having both Block and deflect at the same time. Having everything that a jedi can possibly have was never mentioned at all. Adding things to make your point valid does not work. ~DSBoom

The thread title was
BLOCK and DEFLECT MANDATORY


Actually it was mentioned. EMR mentioned Yoda CS with having both Reflect and block would make him difficult to hit, which does support my arguement. If every jedi/sith that has block should also have deflect, then Loda would have both. Think about it, would you a character like Loda to have both Block and Reflect? If a charcter didn't have MOTF, then having both block and deflect would be as game breaking. But it adds more variety to the game for some character to only have one or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:23 pm 
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"Yoda CS with having both Reflect and block would make him difficult to hit"

Difficult yes unstoppable no. neither would any other Jedi be who did get it. ( be it Yoda CS or Loda or Revan)

As i said i don't think all jedi/sith should get it so in that i agree with you and most other posters here, but i also think most of you go way over the top in your reasons for not having them get it.

The only reason i do not not think all Jedi should have access to everything they can is because if they all did have them there would be no difference between them so what would the point be in having so many different characters in the first place.
I do not see the need to come up with over the top reasons ( unstoppable as an example) that most of you seem to do, or reasons that just do not exist ( high defence been the one that really pisses me of the most).

Still i do as i have said agree that they don't all need them and as for Revan he is a solid mini that is costed about right ( that's my opinion the thread poster is free to disagree) No he will not win every time but he is not meant to neither is any other character in the game. If any single character was then there would be no game in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: block and deflect MANDATORY
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:55 pm 
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dreadtech wrote:
"Yoda CS with having both Reflect and block would make him difficult to hit"

Difficult yes unstoppable no. neither would any other Jedi be who did get it. ( be it Yoda CS or Loda or Revan)

As i said i don't think all jedi/sith should get it so in that i agree with you and most other posters here, but i also think most of you go way over the top in your reasons for not having them get it.

The only reason i do not not think all Jedi should have access to everything they can is because if they all did have them there would be no difference between them so what would the point be in having so many different characters in the first place.
I do not see the need to come up with over the top reasons ( unstoppable as an example) that most of you seem to do, or reasons that just do not exist ( high defence been the one that really pisses me of the most).

Still i do as i have said agree that they don't all need them and as for Revan he is a solid mini that is costed about right ( that's my opinion the thread poster is free to disagree) No he will not win every time but he is not meant to neither is any other character in the game. If any single character was then there would be no game in the first place.


I don't remember most people on this site going "over the top."I never said having both block and deflect was unstoppable either, but it wouldn't be a good idea for any jedi that has one must have the other. If every jedi/sith were to have block and deflect, then the characters with MOTF would be extremely difficult to do any damage to unless you have thrawn or are using Vong.

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