logo

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Is Boba BH Broken?
Total votes : 0

Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:16 pm 
General
General
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:52 pm
Posts: 401
Location: South Jersey
billiv15 wrote:
...What you can do, and what I was suggesting, is to make the best squads out there with each mini. So I suggest my Han Cannon squad (or a similar variant) and a Broken Boba squad (either mine with Lobot, or without him such as Dr. Divot's Champ squad). Play each against 10 different squads and calculate the damage made and the damage taken for each mini. Its not perfect, but it will certainly show you the trend. I have done something like this, I suggest others who want to see how good Boba really is should do the same...

But my point is that the cost is not a simple function of damage output and/or survivability, even over time. There are other factors to which it is VERY difficult to hang a number; just off the top of my head:
Flight (adding the ability to reach otherwise inaccessible places, mobilty, better push survivability, etc)
Fringe (his ability to be fielded in any squad certainly adds something)
Twin/mobility/dis the combined effect adds a scare tactic that completely changes the way people play their squads and I KNOW there is no way that you can put a definitive number on altering the entire match's meta and getting inside a player's head. No way. I use Holo Veers for that same effect (it's the only way he's worth it in my opinion). There are many factors at play when it comes to a piece's cost-effectiveness, not the least of which being that which you've already stated: play style; altering that is powerful.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong about Boba's cost-effectiveness, just that any number you get from your above-mentioned process is a guideline, a pretty good one, but not a definitive value and should not be overstated nor taken as gospel.

_________________
}}}} Champion of the Shadowtrooper {{{{


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:21 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
Name Calling Internet Bully
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:10 pm
Posts: 6172
Location: Gurnee, IL
Menoth's Fire wrote:
Again, I'm not saying you're wrong about Boba's cost-effectiveness, just that any number you get from your above-mentioned process is a guideline, a pretty good one, but not a definitive value and should not be overstated nor taken as gospel.


Yep, it only works if its convincing - which is about the most definitive "objective" of a description as we can make (at least that I can think of). We cannot eliminate all of the variables in any real way to do a true "scientific" evaluation (not that it would be incredibly helpful if we could as the game is not played as a simple sum of its parts that can be quantified in that way).

My intention is not to show that Boba is overcosted/undercosted just that he is somewhere in the ball park of where he should be, and for that measure, I dont think we need to do more, even if we could.

_________________
Image

http://www.bloomilk.com/Squads/Search.aspx?UserID=29


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:31 pm 
Grand Admiral
Grand Admiral
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:56 pm
Posts: 921
Location: the ghettos of NJ
I believe boba isn't broken. Sure he's at the top when it comes to attacking ranged. He's pretty much the darth bane of shooters, and when I say that, I mean he's really powerful and is the best ranged shooter by himself.



A few things can really kill him quickly:
1. Lord Vader
2. Anything with lightsaber reflect ( Yuke )
3. anything with force stun ( yuke again )
4. another boba BH
5. JWMs can do a number on him quickly, even though he has flight.
6. any huge beatsticks with increased mobility
7. Han cannon
8. anything with force push 4
9. massive amounts of vong advance scouts ( thud bug )
10. captain antilles with other fringe shooters
11. any big fringe shooters with kota
12. RS palp and nightsisters
13. mara, jedi. provided she is adjacent and won initative.

I may have missed some, but it can be done. And if you want to avoid desintegration, stay out of LOS or have a bodygaurd.


He's alright in my book.-------> :boba:

_________________
The door in front shuts
Does another one open?
A trapdoor below...


http://www.swshoebox.com/userSquad.cfm?user=sirstevee

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Online
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:03 pm 
Warmaster
Warmaster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:50 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Maine
@SirSteve great list of counters there. That put my point there are several ways to deal with Boba w/o stomping your feet and saying "No fair!" when he is used. Force push 4 is my current favorite way to deal with him.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:25 am 
Jedi Council
Jedi Council
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:03 pm
Posts: 1861
Location: Springfield
SirStevee wrote:
I believe boba isn't broken. Sure he's at the top when it comes to attacking ranged. He's pretty much the darth bane of shooters, and when I say that, I mean he's really powerful and is the best ranged shooter by himself.



A few things can really kill him quickly:
1. Lord Vader
2. Anything with lightsaber reflect ( Yuke )
3. anything with force stun ( yuke again )
4. another boba BH
5. JWMs can do a number on him quickly, even though he has flight.
6. any huge beatsticks with increased mobility
7. Han cannon
8. anything with force push 4
9. massive amounts of vong advance scouts ( thud bug )
10. captain antilles with other fringe shooters
11. any big fringe shooters with kota
12. RS palp and nightsisters
13. mara, jedi. provided she is adjacent and won initative.

I may have missed some, but it can be done. And if you want to avoid desintegration, stay out of LOS or have a bodygaurd.


He's alright in my book.-------> :boba:


Missles or flamethrower. A while back I killed him in a game with Boba, Enforcer using nothing except Missles 30 the whole game.

_________________
Slinky + Escalator = Endless Fun


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:38 am 
Death Star Designers
Death Star Designers
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 3886
Yeah, evade is worthless against Missiles. Even if I have a better chance of hitting him with attacks, might as well go with Missiles since it's 50/50 anyway.

_________________
Bloomilk Ambassador


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:29 am 
Jedi Council
Jedi Council
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:03 pm
Posts: 1861
Location: Springfield
Sithborg wrote:
Yeah, evade is worthless against Missiles. Even if I have a better chance of hitting him with attacks, might as well go with Missiles since it's 50/50 anyway.


That was my thought when I was playing the game. Assuming I hit the attack he was going to get the 50% chance to avoid the damage any way. With Missles 30 I had the same 50% chance for the damage to get through, but I didn't have to take the chance on missing the attack and if it did get through it was 30 damage instead of the 20 the attack would do.

_________________
Slinky + Escalator = Endless Fun


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:21 am 
General
General
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:52 pm
Posts: 401
Location: South Jersey
homer_sapien wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
Yeah, evade is worthless against Missiles. Even if I have a better chance of hitting him with attacks, might as well go with Missiles since it's 50/50 anyway.


That was my thought when I was playing the game. Assuming I hit the attack he was going to get the 50% chance to avoid the damage any way. With Missles 30 I had the same 50% chance for the damage to get through, but I didn't have to take the chance on missing the attack and if it did get through it was 30 damage instead of the 20 the attack would do.

Yeah; using your example that's the difference between 20% (40% to hit x 50% evade) and 50% (assuming cover) on average.

_________________
}}}} Champion of the Shadowtrooper {{{{


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:01 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
Unnamed Stormtrooper

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:25 am
Posts: 1
Quote:
People rarely leave for one issue alone, and rarely tell the truth about it in my experience.

After being a lurker on these boards for months, I finally decide to join and make a valid statement

I left my LGS for one issue, the other players. I simply got tired of their poor playing habits, dominating demeanor towards veteran/new players and trying to run the show. I still enjoy the game and play it with several friends on a weekly basis.

With that being said back to the subject. Boba BH broken NAH. He's worth every 62 points. Not only is he a dominating shooter, he also contributes mentally to the game as well. Your opponent not only plans for your game strategy but now worries about that that unlucky 20 popping up and raining on their parade. Then there's the second guessing of do they take the chance to shoot at him, just to have it go down the tubes when he makes his evade save?

I also firmly believe that with all of his features, he helps new players learn the game at a quicker pace. By this I mean how to effectively use mobile, evade and flamethrower. Sure there are several other pieces that they could choice with these same features and yield the same result. Boba Fett is simply the logical choice, since so many fans recognize who he is.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:04 am 
Hall of Fame Member
Hall of Fame Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:22 pm
Posts: 4982
An age old question but he's not the only fig that can kill you in a phase. Han Scoundrel with Leia can kill you fast and there a lot of combinations that can put a lot more then 40 dmg.

The top end game is one where you expose your character without proper defense you lose.

This Boba does 10% of the time. Play against him like you expect to get disintegrated and don't give him shots then you find he isn't so bust. A bodyguard works wonders too.

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  

Offline
 Post subject: Re: Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter-Broken, The Debate.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:27 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:22 pm
Posts: 195
Location: So Cal
judgedredd wrote:
Quote:
People rarely leave for one issue alone, and rarely tell the truth about it in my experience.

After being a lurker on these boards for months, I finally decide to join and make a valid statement

I left my LGS for one issue, the other players. I simply got tired of their poor playing habits, dominating demeanor towards veteran/new players and trying to run the show. I still enjoy the game and play it with several friends on a weekly basis.

With that being said back to the subject. Boba BH broken NAH. He's worth every 62 points. Not only is he a dominating shooter, he also contributes mentally to the game as well. Your opponent not only plans for your game strategy but now worries about that that unlucky 20 popping up and raining on their parade. Then there's the second guessing of do they take the chance to shoot at him, just to have it go down the tubes when he makes his evade save?

I also firmly believe that with all of his features, he helps new players learn the game at a quicker pace. By this I mean how to effectively use mobile, evade and flamethrower. Sure there are several other pieces that they could choice with these same features and yield the same result. Boba Fett is simply the logical choice, since so many fans recognize who he is.


You should be making more posts if they're all like this. :)
Anyway, you make some very good points. First of all, Boba is recognizable. Of course, this is key.
Second of all, like you are saying, Boba BH is a very straightforward piece, in the way the Vader JH is a very straightforward piece.

So it's not necessarily the fact that Boba BH is broken, but he is very simple and straightforward.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Mark forums read

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Darth Ruthven and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Jedi Knights style by Scott Stubblefield