thereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:00 pm
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LESHIPPY wrote:
Playtest Squad
Boba
Talon IB
New Xixor
New Guri
r7
Rodian brute x3
MD x2
Maybe drop the Brutes and a mouse and add Two klat bs thug.
I'll playtest this tonight.
Dropped the Brutes and a Mouse for a Klat BS Thug and also an Abyssan BS Thug (yes, from UH!).
--Boba, BS Thug--
**54 New Xixor
**50 New Boba Fett
**38 New Guri
32 Talon Karrde, Information Broker
8 Abyssin Black Sun Thug (+12 for 30, double att w Cunning, Stealth)
8 R7 Astromech Droid
**6 Klatoonian Black Sun Thug
3 Mouse Droid
(200pts. 8 activations)
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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:40 pm
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After some fiddling and fighting for space, another rendering:
Quote:
Quote:
Bait and Switch [Once per round when this character is targeted, on a successful save of 11 he may switch positions with a Medium Fringe ally within 6 squares; that character becomes the target instead]
The previous version, tweaked a bit:
Quote:
Quote:
Bait and Switch [Once per round, when this character is targeted, a Medium Fringe ally within 6 squares may switch positions with this character and become the target instead with a save of 11]
Very little room to work with if either has to be expanded.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:21 am
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I think the last one sounds more like other abilities
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hereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:28 am
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For the second one, it looks like the Fringe character is the one who makes the save, rather than Boba. For that reason I think I prefer the wording of the first version, because it makes it clear that Boba makes the save.
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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:28 am
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Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
For the second one, it looks like the Fringe character is the one who makes the save, rather than Boba. For that reason I think I prefer the wording of the first version, because it makes it clear that Boba makes the save.
Yes, the first one has Boba making the save, the 2nd one is the other character. I also thought about having the other character save to resist the effect (just 'save 11' rather than 'with a save of 11') similar to Dominate.
I was just trying to condense the wording, but it didn't seem to work out very well. Here is a more typical phrasing for the 1st version, but the text will probably have to be squeezed about 5% to keep it to 5 lines:
Quote:
Quote:
Bait and Switch [Once per round, when this character is targeted, he can attempt a save of 11. On a success, he may switch positions with a Medium Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead.]
The card is full at 6pt font, with multiple undefined abilities, including Evade which I'm not sure has been done before. Definitely can't add anything else, lol.
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thereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:49 pm
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We can drop Quick Draw. Critical Wound isn't essential either (though it is cool).
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Sithborg Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:59 pm
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I think I would prefer dropping Critical Wound over Quick Draw.
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thereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:21 pm
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I do think something needs to come off of the card for space reasons, so Critical Wound is a good choice to remove. I think that Quick Draw will have more gameplay implications anyway.
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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:42 am
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this should work at 6pt font
side note: Bait & Switch, for space reasons I made base size medium because Boba's are medium. I would consider base size part of the variable portion (if need be) if it gets reused.
Quote:
Quote:
30/45 Boba Fett, Assassin for Hire 50pts
(R) Fringe
HP: 110
Def: 20
Att: +12
Dmg: 20
Special Abilities
Unique. Triple Attack; Flight
Greater Mobile Attack
Accurate Shot [Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy]
Bait and Switch [Once per round, when this character is targeted, he can attempt a save of 11. On a success, he may switch positions with a Medium Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead.]
Bounty Hunter +4 [+4 Attack against Unique enemies]
Evade [When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11]
Quick Draw [This character can make an attack of opportunity against enemies with special abilities or Force powers that ignore characters while moving]
Single-Shot Blaster [This character cannot gain Twin Attack]
Wrist Cable [At the end of this character’s turn, one target enemy within 6 squares cannot move this round, save 11]
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:03 pm
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Play tested this
New Fett
New Guri
New Xizor
Talon IB
R7
Brutex3
MDx2
vs
Sideous, Supreme Chanc.
New Vos
New Asajj
Poggle
Drone x10
Lobot
----
Moramaw or what ever the war throat guy is
Crumb
Fett's crew had a hard time getting targets in teh beginning with cloaked and Phantom Meanace so that limited them. Plus they are expensive to run.
55
50
38
32
175 in 4 figs
Granted they can dish out the damage and probably would have won if not for the dice smiling on the seps.
Vos uses Talon CE
R1 Boba Gambit
----------------
R2
Guri > Lobot (becasue of bad placement) dead
Xizor>Drone H/S comes back
Fett> Drone H Dead
Talon> Drone H dead
Sid Lighting Guri 50 Dam
Gambit Boba
--------------
R3
Xizor>Drone Dead
Talon>Drone Dead - Disrubt
Vos FP2 extra sq >Fett Crit 60 Dam
Fett>Vos M/h/h/h
War Throat > Drone S comes back > Vos 10 > Drone S comes back > Drone Dead 20 Dam Fett > Brute > Brute > MD
Gambit Both
------------------
R4
INT Fett Move
Asajj>Fett Dead
Guri>Sid M/h/h/h/ 60
Talon> Sid Miss
Sid Leap Assault Talon h/h/h/h Dead
Vos Lighting r7
-------------
R5
Guri> Sid M/H
Asajj speed >guri h/m
Xizor> Asajj h/m
War throat moves to postion again with drone near xizor
r6
Assaj>Guri H Dead
this leaves Xizor with two adjacent drones and war throat on the way. Vos cahrging for ligting plus asajj with min dam game called.
Boba sort of got pinned between vos and sid. War throat killed every one that was holding doors for him to get out so he was stuck. How ever no crit by vos and no miss by fett all of a sudden it is a different game.
I think fett is fine where he is at. This squad while it can deal some massive damage has few activations. It might be better to drop Guri for TBSV and maybe bring in dug BSV so you have cunning and opportunist. I don't know. Maybe losing Xizor al together and run Talon and fett guri, new mira...
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thereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:06 pm
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Quote:
LESHIPPY wrote:
I think fett is fine where he is at. This squad while it can deal some massive damage has few activations. It might be better to drop Guri for TBSV and maybe bring in dug BSV so you have cunning and opportunist. I don't know. Maybe losing Xizor al together and run Talon and fett guri, new mira...
Good PT report, and I agree with your conclusions. One Step Ahead is good as is (because it's only 1/round), and I'm confident in moving forward with Boba as he current stands.
I personally think that Talon/Boba (with Dash and Klat Assassins) is the way to go, and that Xizor/Guri are a different squad type, since Xizor doesn't give anything to Boba. Talon/Xizor/Guri/Cad/NBSV is a potentially solid combo though (since Cad will be BS and will gain the extra Att and Talon's dmg boost, for 180dmg).
---------------------------------
swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:11 pm
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I've been thinking about a few scenarios with Bait and Switch. Don't have time to write them out at the moment, but will post later when I get time.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:32 pm
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OK, so I just wanted to bring up a few things and make sure there aren't any unintended interactions. NR Leia, Sith Pawns, Holosid and Nadd Spirit all give easy access to rerolls (free or FPs). This stuff all pertains to when he is based.
Self-Destruct - if Boba is attacked and swaps in a SD piece, it's really nasty against big hits and twin because you can't stop the attack. It seems like you guys are fine with that.
Camasi - completely shuts down the attacker if Diplomat is effect, unless it has Indiscriminate, OF or similar. Screw you, Mara Jedi et al!
Buzz Droid - Against applicable attacks the enemy would "become adjacent" to the Buzz and blow up for 20, stop any further attacks, and maybe trigger malfunctioning. This brings up other questions about Magnetic Sabotage, need to revisit that thread to make sure the intent and rules are squared away on that SA, and if it would actually apply here. I think it would, not sure.
The main point is, we should probably spend a little time looking for weird stuff that could cause headaches now rather than later. I agree he seems pretty much done otherwise.
On the flavor side, if the Sarlacc attacks him, he has a way to escape, so there's that.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:00 am
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Thanks for bringing this up, Dave.
Self-Destruct: Klat Assassins or KelDor BHs are probably the biggest problems here. Someone showed me this Deathshot squad as an example of what could happen:
--Fringe Deathshots--
50 New Boba
23 Mon Mothma
21 Admiral Yularen
21 The Dark Woman
16 Qui-Gon Jinn, Force Spirit
13 Kel Dor Bounty Hunter
36 Klatooinian Assassin x3
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
(100pts. 12 activations)
A Force user trying to kill Boba could wind up having to instead kill a Kel Dor who then gets a Death Shot (+20atk/30dmg) and Self-Destruct 40. Or kill a Klat: +16/50dmg Death shot plus Self-Destruct 20. With Dark Woman/Qui-Gon, there's a 75% chance of pulling it off each round. However, it's a rather one-dimensional squad, with very few deathshots happening, compared, for example, to the more effective Naboo Deathshot squad. Furthermore, a 12 activation squad with no Tempo Control won't get to use Opportunist very often (likely only on the deathshots). You could save 37pts by dropping DW and Quigon Ghost for 2 more Klats and 1 more KelDor, which would make 13 activations and more damage output. It would be a problem for jedi squads, for sure, with 7 potential DS-SD targets. However, a cloaked/stealthed DS-SD squad would be a serious problem for jedi anyway, even without Boba. [Seriously, I think the Klat Assassin should've been 15+pts, but that's another discussion.]
I do think this needs to be tested...both vs a melee squad and a shooter squad.
Caamasi: I thought we had already established that the Noble could be killed, since the targetting step was already resolved. If not, I think it should be. It's just not cool if Boba can live forever if he has lucky saves and a 5pt reinforcement piece. If the Caamasi is swapped for Boba, it should be killable. It's a similar thing with swapping for a fig with Cloaked (ie, Klat Assassin)...I think the new piece should be shoot-able, rather than cancelling the attack entirely. I'd really like to hear a definitive and clear answer/ruling from Scott on this issue before we proceed any further.
Buzz Droid: I'm not sure that this will be a huge problem (and hey, more Lancer-hate isn't necessarily bad). But if it is a problem then we could simply change it to "living" Fringe allies. To me that would solve the problem. Buzz Droids are cheap enough that it might actually end up getting used, so maybe it's better to be safe than sorry.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:51 am
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Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Caamasi: I thought we had already established that the Noble could be killed, since the targetting step was already resolved. If not, I think it should be. It's just not cool if Boba can live forever if he has lucky saves and a 5pt reinforcement piece. If the Caamasi is swapped for Boba, it should be killable. It's a similar thing with swapping for a fig with Cloaked (ie, Klat Assassin)...I think the new piece should be shoot-able, rather than cancelling the attack entirely. I'd really like to hear a definitive and clear answer/ruling from Scott on this issue before we proceed any further.
Steps in an attack:
http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default. ... ts&t=10805
The targeting has already taken place (step 2). In step 3, the new target replaces the old target, and the new target is targeted even if the new character couldn't normally be targeted. This is where Decoy gets around Stealth/Cloaked.
But the attack is declared in step 5. Diplomats cannot be targeted or attacked. Decoy (and by extension Bait and Switch) gets around the targeting restriction, but I don't think it gets around the attack restriction. I'd wait for Scott to verify that, though. Indiscriminate, Overwhelming Power, or Overwhelming Force should all work to get around the attack restriction.
----------------------------------
swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:23 pm
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t
Quote:
hereisnotry wrote:
Thanks for bringing this up, Dave.
Self-Destruct: Klat Assassins or KelDor BHs are probably the biggest problems here. Someone showed me this Deathshot squad as an example of what could happen:
I do think this needs to be tested...both vs a melee squad and a shooter squad.
Yeah, I hadn't even considered death shots on top of that.
Quote:
Quote:
Caamasi: I thought we had already established that the Noble could be killed, since the targetting step was already resolved. If not, I think it should be. It's just not cool if Boba can live forever if he has lucky saves and a 5pt reinforcement piece. If the Caamasi is swapped for Boba, it should be killable. It's a similar thing with swapping for a fig with Cloaked (ie, Klat Assassin)...I think the new piece should be shoot-able, rather than cancelling the attack entirely. I'd really like to hear a definitive and clear answer/ruling from Scott on this issue before we proceed any further.
I don't think that has been established. Decoy may force the Camasi to be the target regardless of other restrictions (ie Stealth), but I'd like to see some clear precedent for how it circumvents the restriction against attacking it if Diplomat is in effect.
Quote:
Quote:
Buzz Droid: I'm not sure that this will be a huge problem (and hey, more Lancer-hate isn't necessarily bad). But if it is a problem then we could simply change it to "living" Fringe allies. To me that would solve the problem. Buzz Droids are cheap enough that it might actually end up getting used, so maybe it's better to be safe than sorry.
A strafer isn't affected unless it is making its normal attack (strafe doesn't target) so the situation is narrower in scope, but it would still penalize a class of pieces that don't deserve the hate (Grie-vehicular Manslaughter being a possible exception
) So I agree with playing it safe and making it living.
A bigger fix (for SD/Camasi if needed) could be to make it only when nonadjacent enemies target him. I kinda see the adjacent aspect as him firing his jet packs to escape, but if its abusive...
Quote:
flyingarrow wrote:
But the attack is declared in step 5. Diplomats cannot be targeted or attacked. Decoy (and by extension One Step Ahead) gets around the targeting restriction, but I don't think it gets around the attack restriction. I'd wait for Scott to verify that, though. Indiscriminate, Overwhelming Power, or Overwhelming Force should all work to get around the attack restriction.
Overwhelming Power only makes damage from attacks unpreventable, but otherwise I concur.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:35 am
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Bait and Switch [Once per round, when this character is targeted, he can attempt a save of 11. On a success, he may switch positions with a Medium Unique Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead and can be attack regardless of Special Abilities]
I think this actually follows the Zan book better then the original intent and it fixes problems.
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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:33 pm
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Quote:
LESHIPPY wrote:
Bait and Switch [Once per round, when this character is targeted, he can attempt a save of 11. On a success, he may switch positions with a Medium Unique Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead and can be attack regardless of Special Abilities]
I think this actually follows the Zan book better then the original intent and it fixes problems.
What is the 'attacked regardless of special abilities' wording supposed to do exactly?
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thereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:11 pm
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There are very few low-cost unique Fringe allies, so I don't think this is the way to go. Medium Fringe ally is fine.
We do need to have a way of keeping a Caamasi Noble from being a never-ending-swap-fodder piece for Boba, though.
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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:50 pm
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Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
There are very few low-cost unique Fringe allies, so I don't think this is the way to go. Medium Fringe ally is fine.
We do need to have a way of keeping a Caamasi Noble from being a never-ending-swap-fodder piece for Boba, though.
One way to handle the Camasi is to make the attack against the decoyed piece unpreventable. That still leaves Self-Destruct abuse on the table if Boba was based, which concerns me.
It's just messy. I think the mechanic needs to be reworked. Maybe he stays put but pulls the ally to an adjacent square and it eats the damage, which would balance the Camasi and Self-Destruct issues. That's a very rough idea so I'm not sure what other issues might come up, but I see some potential benefits on subsequent attacks from the enemy if the ally is the new legal target or a BG.
shrug
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:17 pm
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Boba is already hard on melee characters (flight, wrist cable), so I'm quite concerned about the abuse of swapping for a Klat Assassin when he's attacked by a melee character. The Klat Assassin is already a very powerful piece, even before it is turned into a swapping bodyguard that punishes people who attack it.
There are currently a number of problematic interactions with Bait and Switch:
--Boba is standing in cover and is targeted by an enemy shooter. Boba swaps for a Cloaked ally. The new piece would be un-target-able, correct? It should be target-able, or else this is a bad idea.
--Same deal as above, but with a Diplomat. Never-ending Diplo-BG is a bad idea.
--Swapping for a Self-Destruct or Death-Shot piece, especially vs melee.
Basically, I think it needs to be able to happen that:
--the new piece becomes the target, regardless of any special abilities which would otherwise prevent it
--the new piece can give out no damage until its next activation
If this is not possible from a rules perspective, then I think we do need to scrap the concept. There's just too much that can be abused, to the point of a NPE.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:41 pm
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Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
There are currently a number of problematic interactions with Bait and Switch:
--Boba is standing in cover and is targeted by an enemy shooter. Boba swaps for a Cloaked ally. The new piece would be un-target-able, correct? It should be target-able, or else this is a bad idea.
It is targetable, based on the Decoy precedent. Decoy (and by extension Bait & Switch) happen after targeting, and the swapped-in character becomes the new target. Precedent is for Stealth (specifically Winter swapping in for Leia), but it would work the same way for Cloaked. (It's spelled out in the glossary entry for Decoy.)
Quote:
Quote:
--Same deal as above, but with a Diplomat. Never-ending Diplo-BG is a bad idea.
The Diplomat could not be attacked because the swap happens before the attack is declared, and the Diplomat cannot be attacked. (90% sure on this and swinefeld agrees - but pending Sithborg's confirmation.)
Quote:
Quote:
If this is not possible from a rules perspective, then I think we do need to scrap the concept. There's just too much that can be abused, to the point of a NPE.
Just throwing this out there - what if it were once per skirmish instead of once per round? Possibly also remove the save so that Boba could pick his moment. The same issues would still be there but if he could only do it once it probably buys him another round of life but not semi-eternal NPE life.
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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:22 am
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Quote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Just throwing this out there - what if it were once per skirmish instead of once per round? Possibly also remove the save so that Boba could pick his moment. The same issues would still be there but if he could only do it once it probably buys him another round of life but not semi-eternal NPE life.
Once per skirmish would make a big difference, that's a good suggestion.
I still don't like the self-destruct vs melee aspect, which I why I suggested that he pull the ally adjacent - so he would be affected as well. Big negative incentive there. A Camasi would soak 1 attack, but if the enemy had Double+, Boba wouldn't be protected after the 1st attack. A death shot is another matter, but if we have to put a bunch of caveats into the wording, it really isn't worth it, IMO.
This is pretty much what I was thinking:
Usable once per skirmish: When an enemy targets this character, he can (make a save of 11. On a success,) place a Medium (living) Fringe ally within 6 squares adjacent to him. That ally becomes the target instead (and the attack cannot be prevented).
----------------------------------------------------
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:33 am
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I spoke with Les a bit about this in Kokomo, which is why I'm posting here.
I suggested that if you do continue on this route, that the ability should only work if a non-adjacent enemy targets him. That way it's not Melee hate, and even guns can "turn it off" by basing him. This encourages aggressive action in games. It doesn't solve all of the above quandaries, but it does help some. Les seemed to agree that something that encourages opponents to go after each other is usually a good thing.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:50 am
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^ I would support that option as well
Quote:
swinefeld wrote:
A bigger fix (for SD/Camasi if needed) could be to make it only when nonadjacent enemies target him. I kinda see the adjacent aspect as him firing his jet packs to escape, but if its abusive...
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:11 am
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Combine the two? It would cancel out all of the NPEs that have been mentioned except Fringe death shots. But they aren't currently competitive, and if it's only once per skirmish it wouldn't matter all that much.
Bait and Switch Usable once per skirmish: When a non-adjacent enemy targets this character, he may switch positions with a Medium Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead and the attack cannot be prevented.
Not as awe-inspiring as the original version, but could still utterly change a game when used at the right moment, especially with no save attached.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:48 am
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Thanks for that non-adj suggestion, Tim; I think it's genius. Vs shooters he has defense via Evade or Bait-and-Switch...vs melee he has Flight and Wrist Cable.
Quote:
FlyingArrow wrote:
Bait and Switch: Usable once per skirmish: When a non-adjacent enemy targets this character, he may switch positions with a Medium Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead and the attack cannot be prevented.
I just want to be sure: with the above wording, Diplomat and Cloaked (and whatever else, like SS CEs, etc) would be completely ignored for the attack in question, correct? (Although the piece could still use Evade/Soresu/Deflect if desired.)
I'm not sure it needs to be once per skirmish, though (obviously if it were once per round then it would still need a save). This version is already miles better than the NPE that we had before, so if you guys are really big on it being once per skirmish then I'm willing to go with that. I just think that since we've dramatically lessened its power, it can stay at once-per-round.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:41 am
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Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
There are very few low-cost unique Fringe allies, so I don't think this is the way to go. Medium Fringe ally is fine.
I disagree I think if it is a Unique Fringe ally fixes almost all the problems.
At the moment no one has any of the abilities that are causing problems.
No diplomat
No self destruct
no Djem So
Plus it adds in complexity to your squad building.
This would allow it to be once per round. While not allowing much Lobot abuse. At the moment you would only be able to get two free characters to pull this off with. To get a third piece there would have to be a Unique piece designed at 7 or below
It might force playing pieces otherwise not played.
It is way more flavorful.
I think this is the simplest way to solve the problem.
Quote:
Quote:
Bait and Switch Usable once per round: When a non-adjacent enemy targets this character, he may switch positions with a Unique Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead and the attack cannot be prevented.
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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:03 pm
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Les's version: Unique Small or Medium Fringe ally.
Either case:
An unpreventable attack goes through everything, but I believe can still be redirected. Without the Camasi in the picture, it doesn't have to be unpreventable, because it gets around targeting rules for stealth/cloaked etc.
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thereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:36 pm
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Quote:
LESHIPPY wrote:
Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
There are very few low-cost unique Fringe allies, so I don't think this is the way to go. Medium Fringe ally is fine.
I disagree I think if it is a Unique Fringe ally fixes almost all the problems.
At the moment no one has any of the abilities that are causing problems.
No diplomat
No self destruct
no Djem So
Plus it adds in complexity to your squad building.
This would allow it to be once per round. While not allowing much Lobot abuse. At the moment you would only be able to get two free characters to pull this off with. To get a third piece there would have to be a Unique piece designed at 7 or below
It might force playing pieces otherwise not played.
It is way more flavorful.
I think this is the simplest way to solve the problem.
Quote:
Quote:
Bait and Switch Usable once per round: When a non-adjacent enemy targets this character, he may switch positions with a Unique Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead and the attack cannot be prevented.
Here is a list of all the unique Fringe characters costing 12pts or less [more expensive pieces tend to not be worth it]:
-5 Salacious Crumb (small)
-8 Wicket (small)
-8 Bib Fortuna
-9 Wuher (has No Blasters, so we'd definitely need the "can't be prevented" clause)
-9 Ponda Baba
-10 Owen & Beru Lars
-10 Figrin D'an
-10 Dr. Evazan
-11 Watto
-11 Boshek
-12 Shmi Skywalker
-12 Logray, Ewok Shaman
-12 Greedo
-12 Gha Nachkt
-12 Garindan
I've placed in bold the minis that tend to get used with any kind of frequency. Salacious and Figrin are clearly the best options, but how many squads mainline them? I'm not sure I'd want to sack Wicket if I was in a matchup where I needed him (ie, vs high-def pieces), and I wouldn't bring him into my squad except via Reinforcements, and only then if I needed the extra help hitting the big targets. Gha Nachkt is the only other piece worth sacking, since his role is already finished once the squad is built...and people would be happily using him for this role anyway, even if they had other pieces to choose from too.
I don't think that restricting this SA to Uniques would help these unplayed Uniques to see more table time...it would only reduce the usefulness of the SA. If we're looking at doing this, then I would honestly rather see him keep the CE that we had on him before (allied BH moves 2 squares).
I think Bait-And-Switch is far too cool of an ability to allow it to be mostly crippled by the Unique restriction.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:33 pm
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I don't know, 13 to 17 points for essentially 30 to 50 extra hp is not bad.
Really it is more then that if you are able to pull the unique from around the corner now Boba is safe from all the damage. The unique takes up to 80 from Cad or who ever so they die, but boba is still alive having taken no damage and that is huge. so getting two chances to save 120 damage is pretty big and it is 13 to 17 points that you brought in with Lobot
This is still a good ability but it takes some skill to pull it off effectively. It isn't just simple as swap. I really don't want this to be an offensive tool because that is really meant to be a defensive ability. It is a different way to protect Fett then we have used before.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:01 pm
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You know, the easy fix is to make it a reverse Draw Their Fire (ie, only to another legal target) rather than a reverse Decoy.
It solves all the issues that are seeming to come up. The movement of Fett. The anti-meleeness of pulling in a character with Self Destruct. The issues with Diplomat et al. And really, requires much less wording.
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LESHIPPY Online
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:18 pm
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Quote:
Sithborg wrote:
You know, the easy fix is to make it a reverse Draw Their Fire (ie, only to another legal target) rather than a reverse Decoy.
It solves all the issues that are seeming to come up. The movement of Fett. The anti-meleeness of pulling in a character with Self Destruct. The issues with Diplomat et al. And really, requires much less wording.
That might be the easiest way to deal with it. I like moving Fett but I am willing to work with this.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:17 pm
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Why won't this work?
Quote:
Quote:
Bait and Switch: Usable once per round: When a non-adjacent enemy targets this character, he may switch positions with a Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead and the attack cannot be prevented.
This isn't a problem with self-destruct, nor is it a problem with Diplomat or Cloak/SS. I think it's a really cool SA written this way. Am I missing something here?
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:13 am
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Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Quote:
Bait and Switch: Usable once per round: When a non-adjacent enemy targets this character, he may switch positions with a Fringe ally within 6 squares. That character becomes the target instead and the attack cannot be prevented.
I would prefer to use this version as long as you can still shoot whoever it switches with.
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thereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:25 am
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That's fine for me. But I do think it should still require a Save 11.
As long as it gets around Diplomat/Cloaked shenanigans, then I think it's good to go.
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swinefeld Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:38 pm
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Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
That's fine for me. But I do think it should still require a Save 11.
As long as it gets around Diplomat/Cloaked shenanigans, then I think it's good to go
.
Yes, the save needs to go back in.
As I understand it, Decoy forces it to be a legal target regardless of other abilities.
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:45 pm
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That sounds good to me. But the new target can still prevent (Deflect/Evade) or reduce (armor) the damage if it normally could, correct?
'cannot be prevented' is straight from Overwhelming Force, which gets the Diplomat.
If we make it 'cannot be prevented or redirected' then it should stick in all cases, which may be best so as to avoid any other weird interactions (now or future). The decoy eats the attack (if it hits) 100% of the time.
Sound appropriate?
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thereisnotry Offline
Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:45 pm
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That sounds good to me. But the new target can still prevent (Deflect/Evade) or reduce (armor) the damage if it normally could, correct?
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Post subject: Re: 31. I'm Boba the FettPostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:05 pm
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Quote:
thereisnotry wrote:
That sounds good to me. But the new target can still prevent (Deflect/Evade) or reduce (armor) the damage if it normally could, correct?
Aw crap, I just realized this doesn't even cover abilities that aren't attacks.
Time to rethink it yet again.
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