How about Reinforcements count for points, but Lobot only counts for 7 points and Garm counts for 15 points? Just subtract the points from the character granting Reinforcements. I'd actually be more likely to use Lobot if he was only worth 7 points when he got sniped...

LOL, that's not bad either. Would definitely soften the blow when I make boneheaded moves and let STSparks Missles 30 my Lobot on the first play of the game, lol.

Except doesnt that negate the whole point of reinforcements?

You still get to customize your squad. The difference between 6 Ugos and Lando DS is big deal. Being able to see whether you're planning San or Han Rogue before you bring in a Muun Tactics Broker is a big deal, too.

The only down-side to it I see is that it makes R2-D2 (Rebel, RS) almost worthless. Sure, he has higher HP and better defense, but if Lobot only costs you 7 points now when he dies, it doesn't even matter if you bring in any reinforcements or not. Not to mention the headache that will cause people when they try to build squads claiming that Lobot only costs 7 points, or that Garm only costs 15. It's not a bad idea, but it might be a bit tricky to implement.

It seems simpler than making Reinforcements worth half the points rounded up. :)

The rules for squad building don't change at all, just the rules for scoring points. There are much more complicated rules in SWM for people to get confused about than this.

And I think C-3PO and R2-D2 did more to make R2-D2 worth less (not worthless) than this change to Lobot would.

As this discussion continues, I see it becoming less of a DCI official championship and more of a house rules game. I am going to bet that there will be some very confused people at the event the more you pile on changes. I am all for house rules, but there is a time and place for them.

Just because on certain maps someone can build a specific squad that can be used in a manner that is not necessarily fun to play against with some squads and with some playstyles does not, in my mind, necessitate a rules change. Alter your squad selection and playstyle to adapt to various combinations or lose a few games. I mean really.

Touche.



True in some ways, but not really that much of a problem if it changes as a whole for DCI. People even showed up to the Championships, and had no clue what gambit was. I played against two different people in that boat. Now, Gambit didn't make or break the game for me, as I won those by a decent margin, IIRC, but as the game progressed, I think the opponents realized more and more what a mistake it was to not know those things.

Sporting events change rules all the time. Football adjusts it's penalty rules in some way practically every year. If it's something that will make the entire game better in the end, then I say go for it. If people coming to GenCon don't do their homework before hand, then that's their fault. Shouldn't come to a national/international event without being completely prepared.



The problem is that losing even one game can knock you out of contention for the top 8 in an event like GenCon. So, you have to make the choice: do you build your squad to handle a specific squad or do you build to handle a multitude of squads, even if it may be particularly vunerable to that one specific type?

Bill, is there anything in particular that you can think of that would be fairly tough for a Lobot/Garm squad to handle? That's the key thing to look at right now. If there's a decent counter out there that might handle other things as well (say, 6 JWMs + filler or some such) then it may not be as big of a problem as you fear.

EMR is right: timing rounds is the answer. It's the stalling, not the rules. Part of squad-building is creating a squad that can handle multiple situations. Period.

I am all for following the DCI rules, and this means if the DCI rules make changes to the reinforcements, fine. But, I don't think the Super Bowl is played with a different ruleset then the rest of the NFL games.

agreed. I want the rules changed, not a special provision for Gencon.

I definitely agree there... the rules should be universal, in whatever form.

Oh...ABSOLUTELY. Sorry, never meant to imply otherwise. Changing the ruleset shortly before GenCon (or having new pieces release without proper mini-FAQ or Errata) would be frustrating, but special rules specifically for the Championship? No, no, no, no. If it's to be a Championship of SWM players, then it should be done by the official rules, not with any special/house rules just for GenCon.

Come to think of it, the new set releasing that same weekend could make for some really interesting action in the Championship. If much info is leaked about the pieces before hand, then we might be able to build squads using the latest stuff. Then again, it still might be smarter to run the older pieces just because you'll be the most familiar with those (heck, 3 weeks after TFU here, and I'm still barely learning the nuances of some of these new pieces). But I think the rules/errata headaches may be the worst part about that. Moses and his judging staff will really have to be on top of things.

Apparently, CoolStuff has KOTOR preorder for Aug 8. Still, this is of great concern to me. New rules/abilities right before the big event, Yikes!!!!!!!

My feelings wouldnt be hurt at all if Gencon had nothing to do with the new set since it is that close to the release. In fact i think that the prizes should be the new set boosters. That could be it. Its gonna be a huge headache again i am sure.

At this point we know that the scheduled release date for KOTOR is August 8th. That means it will be tourney legal for GenCon. If WOTC allows us to have information (rules/abilities) about the set in advance (I'm not holding my breath), the release of KOTOR could be a good thing. I just am concerned for judges having the correct interpretation of the rules for the big tourneys. If we are not allowed to have advance information then we are really going to need Jason.

Since the release has been listed as August 8th. I am not too concerned about product availability. Many players will already have purchased their cases by the time GenCon begins and release tourneys will have probably happened on the 9th or 10th. If KOTOR is available for prize support at GenCon (I can't imagine that it would not be), it will enhance league play and have a positive effect on the sealed event as well.

Yeah, that could turn out to work quite well, and IMO, is a good alternative to the set releasing on the same weekend as GenCon. Although, it makes it tough as on the one hand, I would probably like to get as many of the pieces from the KOTOR set as possible beforehand so as to make the best new squads as possible. However, if you go and win any boosters, or play in the sealed/league events, then you end up with lots of extra stuff.

What would you guys think about having a running the quad event at gencon? It would be perfect as a four round event.

Round 1 - dynamic duo
Round 2 - 100pt
Round 3 - 150pt
Round 4 - 200 pt

standard Ironman rules. No repeating uniques, commanders, or non-uniques over 15pts (printed). Maps would most likely be DCI for each point value.

Ooooh....THAT sounds like fun!

(EDIT: Does the no repeating of non-Uniques only apply from one squad to the next, or does it also prevent you from running, say 3 JWMs in one squad together?)