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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:05 am 
Droid Army Commander
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Anyone play TOR on Hutta? There is a droid that basically runs up to pieces and blows up. Cheap with low HPs.


Malfunctioning Droid
Medium base.
Fringe
6 PTs.
10 HP
Def 12
Atk 3
Damage 10
SA
Droid, Melee
Self-Destruct Sequence 10

Cheap enough for 3 under Lobot. Expendable. If it dies, you are out of luck but able to take down uggies, mice, and diplomats. And, of you are a Sep or Vong player, you can utilize it as a timer.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:07 am 
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I've tried to fit Wuher into all my squads. He is a decent Gambit getter. And now with the Squib, he is handy. I understand why most don't use him, but I like him.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:10 am 
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Markedman247 wrote:
Anyone play TOR on Hutta? There is a droid that basically runs up to pieces and blows up. Cheap with low HPs.


Malfunctioning Droid
Medium base.
Fringe
6 PTs.
10 HP
Def 12
Atk 3
Damage 10
SA
Droid, Melee
Self-Destruct Sequence 10

Cheap enough for 3 under Lobot. Expendable. If it dies, you are out of luck but able to take down uggies, mice, and diplomats. And, of you are a Sep or Vong player, you can utilize it as a timer.


Sadly that is probably dead before you have it do any of its intended job.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:53 pm 
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Echo wrote:
Abilities like Bribery, We Don't Serve Their Kind Here, Galloping Attack, Strafe Attack, and War Throat keep big swarms of Mouse Droids in check while not being an inelegant silver bullet.


Bribery and war throat were enough to convince me not to play Slow Lancer, and I would not bring in 10 mice against anyone who had Lobot and any kind of movement breaker (because if they bring in Momaw, those mice just die for nothing). So while I have been for some kind of errata to the stupidity of mouse droids clogging everything (especially now that we can have 28 defense mice via HK) for years now, I do think the situation has improved quite a bit.

Having said that, I would still support a 5-point Fringe piece that said "Characters named Mouse Droid get -8 defense, do not provide cover to allied figures, and do not have to be considered the closest target unless adjacent. If a character ends its move in a square that a mouse droid occupies, move the mouse droid to the nearest unoccupied square." Call it the Jawa droid merchant. Note that the wording nerfs both players' mouse droids.

I don't recommend that we do this very often, but using mice as mass blocking fodder just makes the game less fun for everyone involved. And because mice remain costly and hard to find, their use in bulk introduces a definite have/have not dichotomy that I think we should be trying to neutralize on general principle. Don't get me wrong, lancers and that old Darth Sidious (that you need for any good lancer squad) are hard to find and expensive, too, but you only need one or two of them, versus 15 to 20 mouse droids.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:04 pm 
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greentime wrote:
Echo wrote:
Abilities like Bribery, We Don't Serve Their Kind Here, Galloping Attack, Strafe Attack, and War Throat keep big swarms of Mouse Droids in check while not being an inelegant silver bullet.


Bribery and war throat were enough to convince me not to play Slow Lancer, and I would not bring in 10 mice against anyone who had Lobot and any kind of movement breaker (because if they bring in Momaw, those mice just die for nothing). So while I have been for some kind of errata to the stupidity of mouse droids clogging everything (especially now that we can have 28 defense mice via HK) for years now, I do think the situation has improved quite a bit.

Having said that, I would still support a 5-point Fringe piece that said "Characters named Mouse Droid get -8 defense, do not provide cover to allied figures, and do not have to be considered the closest target unless adjacent. If a character ends its move in a square that a mouse droid occupies, move the mouse droid to the nearest unoccupied square." Call it the Jawa droid merchant. Note that the wording nerfs both players' mouse droids.

I don't recommend that we do this very often, but using mice as mass blocking fodder just makes the game less fun for everyone involved. And because mice remain costly and hard to find, their use in bulk introduces a definite have/have not dichotomy that I think we should be trying to neutralize on general principle. Don't get me wrong, lancers and that old Darth Sidious (that you need for any good lancer squad) are hard to find and expensive, too, but you only need one or two of them, versus 15 to 20 mouse droids.


I was good pn all of that but the -8 defense. When you are using them for the intended purpose you have to have that base 20 defense. There are quite a few squads that have shown up with MDs in it that if you could easily tear up the MD's that are being used for relay orders the entire squad can fall apart. The MD itself is a good figure in the game and helps the game immensely however it has been horribly corrupted from its original intent.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:24 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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audrisampson wrote:
greentime wrote:
Echo wrote:
Abilities like Bribery, We Don't Serve Their Kind Here, Galloping Attack, Strafe Attack, and War Throat keep big swarms of Mouse Droids in check while not being an inelegant silver bullet.


Bribery and war throat were enough to convince me not to play Slow Lancer, and I would not bring in 10 mice against anyone who had Lobot and any kind of movement breaker (because if they bring in Momaw, those mice just die for nothing). So while I have been for some kind of errata to the stupidity of mouse droids clogging everything (especially now that we can have 28 defense mice via HK) for years now, I do think the situation has improved quite a bit.

Having said that, I would still support a 5-point Fringe piece that said "Characters named Mouse Droid get -8 defense, do not provide cover to allied figures, and do not have to be considered the closest target unless adjacent. If a character ends its move in a square that a mouse droid occupies, move the mouse droid to the nearest unoccupied square." Call it the Jawa droid merchant. Note that the wording nerfs both players' mouse droids.

I don't recommend that we do this very often, but using mice as mass blocking fodder just makes the game less fun for everyone involved. And because mice remain costly and hard to find, their use in bulk introduces a definite have/have not dichotomy that I think we should be trying to neutralize on general principle. Don't get me wrong, lancers and that old Darth Sidious (that you need for any good lancer squad) are hard to find and expensive, too, but you only need one or two of them, versus 15 to 20 mouse droids.


I was good pn all of that but the -8 defense. When you are using them for the intended purpose you have to have that base 20 defense. There are quite a few squads that have shown up with MDs in it that if you could easily tear up the MD's that are being used for relay orders the entire squad can fall apart. The MD itself is a good figure in the game and helps the game immensely however it has been horribly corrupted from its original intent.

I agree with Audri who agrees with Graham. :)

I don't think they actually need the defense nerf, because as Audri said, it helps them to stick around for their main *legitimate* purpose, which is Relay Orders. The rest of the Jawa Droid Merchant idea is superb, IMHO. Something like that (cheap, boardwide, and easy to include) is just what the doctor ordered.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:50 pm 
Master of the Order
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thereisnotry wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
greentime wrote:
Echo wrote:
Abilities like Bribery, We Don't Serve Their Kind Here, Galloping Attack, Strafe Attack, and War Throat keep big swarms of Mouse Droids in check while not being an inelegant silver bullet.


Bribery and war throat were enough to convince me not to play Slow Lancer, and I would not bring in 10 mice against anyone who had Lobot and any kind of movement breaker (because if they bring in Momaw, those mice just die for nothing). So while I have been for some kind of errata to the stupidity of mouse droids clogging everything (especially now that we can have 28 defense mice via HK) for years now, I do think the situation has improved quite a bit.

Having said that, I would still support a 5-point Fringe piece that said "Characters named Mouse Droid get -8 defense, do not provide cover to allied figures, and do not have to be considered the closest target unless adjacent. If a character ends its move in a square that a mouse droid occupies, move the mouse droid to the nearest unoccupied square." Call it the Jawa droid merchant. Note that the wording nerfs both players' mouse droids.

I don't recommend that we do this very often, but using mice as mass blocking fodder just makes the game less fun for everyone involved. And because mice remain costly and hard to find, their use in bulk introduces a definite have/have not dichotomy that I think we should be trying to neutralize on general principle. Don't get me wrong, lancers and that old Darth Sidious (that you need for any good lancer squad) are hard to find and expensive, too, but you only need one or two of them, versus 15 to 20 mouse droids.


I was good pn all of that but the -8 defense. When you are using them for the intended purpose you have to have that base 20 defense. There are quite a few squads that have shown up with MDs in it that if you could easily tear up the MD's that are being used for relay orders the entire squad can fall apart. The MD itself is a good figure in the game and helps the game immensely however it has been horribly corrupted from its original intent.

I agree with Audri who agrees with Graham. :)

I don't think they actually need the defense nerf, because as Audri said, it helps them to stick around for their main *legitimate* purpose, which is Relay Orders. The rest of the Jawa Droid Merchant idea is superb, IMHO. Something like that (cheap, boardwide, and easy to include) is just what the doctor ordered.


I like it. I think it would need some verbiage about not occupying a square on the board or something like that, or else you could never legally end in their square. I get the purpose - you can walk through them. If they didn't block movement or LoS, that's the big things - I agree, it wouldn't need the defense nerf.

It's interesting that it seems like the #1 NPE is mouse droid walls. Everyone always refers to the 10 mouse dump, and I always assumed it was the cheap activations spinning in the back that annoyed everyone (I know, I know - it still does). But after this thread I see that the real demon is using that 10 mouse dump to create nearly impenetrable walls. Well I wholeheartedly agree with this. We'd see LOTS less mice if they weren't 2-3pt SUPER SHIELDS.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:21 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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TimmerB123 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
greentime wrote:
Echo wrote:
Abilities like Bribery, We Don't Serve Their Kind Here, Galloping Attack, Strafe Attack, and War Throat keep big swarms of Mouse Droids in check while not being an inelegant silver bullet.


Bribery and war throat were enough to convince me not to play Slow Lancer, and I would not bring in 10 mice against anyone who had Lobot and any kind of movement breaker (because if they bring in Momaw, those mice just die for nothing). So while I have been for some kind of errata to the stupidity of mouse droids clogging everything (especially now that we can have 28 defense mice via HK) for years now, I do think the situation has improved quite a bit.

Having said that, I would still support a 5-point Fringe piece that said "Characters named Mouse Droid get -8 defense, do not provide cover to allied figures, and do not have to be considered the closest target unless adjacent. If a character ends its move in a square that a mouse droid occupies, move the mouse droid to the nearest unoccupied square." Call it the Jawa droid merchant. Note that the wording nerfs both players' mouse droids.

I don't recommend that we do this very often, but using mice as mass blocking fodder just makes the game less fun for everyone involved. And because mice remain costly and hard to find, their use in bulk introduces a definite have/have not dichotomy that I think we should be trying to neutralize on general principle. Don't get me wrong, lancers and that old Darth Sidious (that you need for any good lancer squad) are hard to find and expensive, too, but you only need one or two of them, versus 15 to 20 mouse droids.


I was good pn all of that but the -8 defense. When you are using them for the intended purpose you have to have that base 20 defense. There are quite a few squads that have shown up with MDs in it that if you could easily tear up the MD's that are being used for relay orders the entire squad can fall apart. The MD itself is a good figure in the game and helps the game immensely however it has been horribly corrupted from its original intent.

I agree with Audri who agrees with Graham. :)

I don't think they actually need the defense nerf, because as Audri said, it helps them to stick around for their main *legitimate* purpose, which is Relay Orders. The rest of the Jawa Droid Merchant idea is superb, IMHO. Something like that (cheap, boardwide, and easy to include) is just what the doctor ordered.


I like it. I think it would need some verbiage about not occupying a square on the board or something like that, or else you could never legally end in their square. I get the purpose - you can walk through them. If they didn't block movement or LoS, that's the big things - I agree, it wouldn't need the defense nerf.

It's interesting that it seems like the #1 NPE is mouse droid walls. Everyone always refers to the 10 mouse dump, and I always assumed it was the cheap activations spinning in the back that annoyed everyone (I know, I know - it still does). But after this thread I see that the real demon is using that 10 mouse dump to create nearly impenetrable walls. Well I wholeheartedly agree with this. We'd see LOTS less mice if they weren't 2-3pt SUPER SHIELDS.


I would suggest the term "Scatter" in order to part the walls of mice. The sad thing is the game had this flaw (small offering cover) for numerous years that it took mice to exploit it. Granted, one could offer that "diminutive" or "miniscule" would have solved this.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Markedman247 wrote:
I would suggest the term "Scatter" in order to part the walls of mice. The sad thing is the game had this flaw (small offering cover) for numerous years that it took mice to exploit it. Granted, one could offer that "diminutive" or "miniscule" would have solved this.

Very true. And actually, the addition of a Diminutive/Tiny/Minuscule SA via Errata would be a lot more simple, elegant, and warranted than forcing ourselves to make another piece or to design a workaround that actually works.

There is a difference between making an Errata to change the meta (cf the recently re-ignited SSM discussion), and making an Errata to fix an error in game design. I agree that Errata is not the answer to the former...but I think we could seriously (and profitably) discuss the pros and cons of using Errata in response to the latter. They are two different issues--with obvious similarities of course--but two different issues nonetheless.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:25 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
There is a difference between making an Errata to change the meta (cf the recently re-ignited SSM discussion), and making an Errata to fix an error in game design.


It's I slippery slope. I'm sure you won't agree, but I for one think that SSM was an error in game design. The fact that it appears different in the glossary vs the card is more hard evidence of that then anything you can point at concerning mouse droids. I would love mouse droids to have this errata, but I bring this up to point out that it is impossible to truly differentiate between what you think is an error in game design vs someone else's. And the other part of the argument is that the mouse droid errata would change the meta as well. You may have an idea of the difference in your head, but they are both murky and really there is no way to distinguish them without bias.

That being said, this is all kind of a fantasy conversation anyway, isn't it? Does anyone really expect these changes to happen?

It seems to me to be either all or none. Frankly no errata is cleaner. But if we open the door to one, where do we draw the line?

The only reason I even started the SSM thread was because it was an ability that had one definition in the glossary that was different than the definition on the card to begin with, then GOWK was banned, then he was nerfed, and he was only recently re-instated. This was the first GenCon EVER with SSM at card strength, and it was already brought up that we would see how it went and discuss it afterward. So it was already going to be brought up no matter what.

I actually think Mace, V-set Panaka, and a few others are BIGGER problems that I would personally love to erase, but I recognize that in the long run it won't happen. It just doesn't work that way.

So as much as I would personally love to add "diminutive" to Mouse Droids, we really can't.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:30 pm 
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I do not think there should be errata. Any fix should come by us in the form of a fig (some of the ones in this thread are good places to start) if we decide to head in that direction.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Im praying something comes from this thread. I think this thread proved what a problem the situation is and frankly I think it would be irresponsible to push what has been discussed here under the rug.

Personally I think an errata is the best answer. Deal with the problem without requireing someone to pack something in there squad.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:20 am 
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If the "wall" is the issue, then a boardwide ability affects adjacency might be the fix:

Scatter (Intimdating Roar): replaces turn; Characters with "mouse droid" in their name must end their movement 1 square away from allied "mouse droids" until the end of the round.

Wording needs work.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:50 am 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
It seems to me to be either all or none. Frankly no errata is cleaner. But if we open the door to one, where do we draw the line?


Agreed. This is part of the reason why I objected to changing SSM (post GenCon 2012), and why I object to changing anything regarding mice. Everyone is talking about mouse walls, but when is the last time that squad featuring tempo control or mouse interference won GenCon? Three years ago, before the appearance of the first vset pieces, that's when. I think the designers' responses since that time have been appropriate and effective. There's no need to address it further if it isn't dominating the meta as it once was. Tempo control...and yes, even a mouse wall...is just a valid strategy as tank squads.

I get that this is a thread about NPEs (and I agree that mouse walls and tempo control fit in that category just as SSM and Mace's abilities do) but since it has evolved into a 'what can we change' thread I thought I'd add my two cents.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:49 am 
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Darth_Jim wrote:
Agreed. This is part of the reason why I objected to changing SSM (post GenCon 2012), and why I object to changing anything regarding mice. Everyone is talking about mouse walls, but when is the last time that squad featuring tempo control or mouse interference won GenCon? Three years ago, before the appearance of the first vset pieces, that's when. I think the designers' responses since that time have been appropriate and effective. There's no need to address it further if it isn't dominating the meta as it once was. Tempo control...and yes, even a mouse wall...is just a valid strategy as tank squads.


Best point made all thread I think. Mouse walls (I'm not including the option to put in 6 Mouse Droids with Lobot as "Mouse wall", because 6 really isn't that many and it isn't hard to kill enough to take out the strategy) and tempo control haven't won GenCon since 2010. Neither have been in the top 2 of GenCon since 2010. Double Lancer was the only squad with Tempo control in the top 4 of GenCon since 2010 (in 2011, and it didn't have Mouse Walls). In fact, since GenCon 2010, there were 3 squads in 2011 with tempo control and the Mouse Wall option (Solo Charge x2 and a Rebel squad) in the top 8 and 0 squads in 2012 with it in the top 8. This argument is starting to feel downright antiquated. Small scale tournaments and even rounds at GenCon that aren't near the top tables might involve Mouse Walls, but they just aren't making a huge impact in top level competitive play.

People playing Mouse Walls might be your NPE. You might hate when people do it. But that's not how or why things change. It hasn't been demonstrated to be a problem in top level play, so I don't see how it's a problem that needs to be fixed. I've said this before, but you being annoyed is no reason to change something.


I'll also say that as long as I have a say in the design process I will be totally against a piece that says "Mouse Droids get (some negative thing)". We don't have any pieces at all (that I can think of at least, there might be something really obscure that nobody plays or cares about) that calls out a specific piece on your opponent's squad and debilitates them. I listed lots of Mouse Droid counters in an earlier post, but not a single one of them mentions Mouse Droids in their definition. That is drastically better design than making a silver bullet that hurts them. Will we make more of those abilities (or use the ones that exist more often) that counter Mouse Droids? Sure, maybe! I have no problem designing ways to hate a certain undesirable strategy out of the game. It must be done with subtlety, though. The pieces you make need uses other than just countering Mouse Droids. They should kill ALL pieces with 10 HP, so it counters Mouse Droids well but is still useful otherwise. They should steal ANY Fringe Reinforcements that your opponent brings in, so it counters Mouse Droids well but is still useful otherwise.

Finally, I'll also be totally against any errata like has been discussed. The Mouse Droid was released 3 and a half years ago. It is actually weaker now than it was then due to a shift in the meta and more counters made to them. Why make an errata now? We can continue hating them with the new sets to the point that they just aren't even played (subtly and indirectly, of course). It just feels that the time for an errata like that passed long ago. You might think that the Mouse Droid is a mistake as is (which might or might not be true), but that's an old mistake. That ship sailed as far as I'm concerned.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:05 am 
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BTW echo, my double lancer does NOT run tempo control. In fact tempo control is one of my personal NPEs. With double lancer the power was the ability to mid round strike with a pawned lancer.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:09 am 
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urbanjedi wrote:
BTW echo, my double lancer does NOT run tempo control. In fact tempo control is one of my personal NPEs. With double lancer the power was the ability to mid round strike with a pawned lancer.


Ah, good to know. Well then neither tempo control nor big Mouse Walls have been in the top 4 at GenCon since 2010.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:13 am 
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So let me get this straight Echo... Since something doesn't effect you and some other HOFers at the upper level tables of GenCon it becomes irrevelant, antiquated and not worth looking into??? Im sorry but that is what I get from your post.

Also what I'm getting from your post since I generally get mouse walls used against me I need to pack Lobot in every squad and just assume Im bringing in Momaw every game just in case I get mouse walled since I wont generally see all the mice before the lobot reserve phase of the game starting. Im sorry thats pretty crappy.

Let me be a bit blunt.. the reason the MD never got fixed is because flat out by that point the DCI didn't care about SWM. They were about to announce the end of the game and at the time Magic was growing at a historic rate and needed all of their attention. They didn't have time for a game that was going to end soon anyway. So were going to not fix a problem because someone who didn't care about a problem didn't fix it several years ago.

Maybe Im being a bit extreme in this post, I can see where people would think it. But for all the talk that this is a dead strategy I saw it in at least a quarter of my regional matches and with that you take into consideration not everyone ran lobot in their squads, Im seeing this BS a pretty good amount.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:40 am 
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audrisampson wrote:
So let me get this straight Echo... Since something doesn't effect you and some other HOFers at the upper level tables of GenCon it becomes irrevelant, antiquated and not worth looking into??? Im sorry but that is what I get from your post.


I wish I still had Jim's quote about this in my signature. But no, of course that isn't what I said.

My point is twofold: One, this is not hurting competitive play. Mouse Droids do not dominate or warp the national meta. They might screw up your local meta, but we cannot make sweeping changes based on local metas. So there is no good argument to be made that Mouse Droids need to be changed because they screw up things like the championship, because tons of Mouse Droids haven't even made a splash at the championship in years. All kinds of weird things happen at the lower tables of the events like GenCon and changes shouldn't be made based on those, either.

The second point is, I think, the more important one: Something being an NPE to you or your group or a few people online does not create any kind of case to change something. People who hate Mouse Droids are very vocal, but that doesn't make them the majority, and it doesn't mean that something needs to be changed. I for one don't really care about Mouse Droids and don't feel that any kind of nerfing or errata or countering is necessary. They probably should have been designed differently, and Gha Nachkt shouldn't have ever been made, that's for sure, but it's not a big deal to me. You can't insist that something be changed because it pisses you off really bad. Otherwise, I'd be making threads to ban the Lancer, or make a piece that says "Enemies whose name contain Lancer gain Speed 4".

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Also what I'm getting from your post since I generally get mouse walls used against me I need to pack Lobot in every squad and just assume Im bringing in Momaw every game just in case I get mouse walled since I wont generally see all the mice before the lobot reserve phase of the game starting. Im sorry thats pretty crappy.


Or play some other counters. Play Arica, or a character with Strafe Attack, or Lightsaber Sweep, or Galloping Attack, or Bribery, or any area of effect ability. There are plenty of counters that don't involve Lobot. If you choose to play none, then yeah, you might have a problem with that. Otherwise that's like complaining about pieces with Parry by saying that it's pretty crappy that you have to play non-melee characters or direct damage, otherwise your damage output gets cut in half. Well, yeah, I guess that's true, but there are enough counters that you don't have much of an excuse to not play one. Maybe there aren't enough counters to Mouse Droids yet; maybe Mandos need a better Strafe Attack or Galloping Attack piece or an Accurate shooting piece with Furious assault to kill them. Making one of those pieces is the answer, though; not making an errata or creating a silver bullet piece.

If a silver bullet piece IS made, though, then this part of your post is absolutely, 100% unchanged, just replace "Momaw" or "Lobot" with the silver bullet. In fact, this is the core of the reason that I hate silver bullets. If there is a 6 point piece that says "Mouse Droids get bad thing X", then now I have to either play that piece or Lobot to bring it in. That's exactly your argument, and that's why it's a poor solution.

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Let me be a bit blunt.. the reason the MD never got fixed is because flat out by that point the DCI didn't care about SWM. They were about to announce the end of the game and at the time Magic was growing at a historic rate and needed all of their attention. They didn't have time for a game that was going to end soon anyway. So were going to not fix a problem because someone who didn't care about a problem didn't fix it several years ago.


For one thing, the floor rules have been written by volunteers and friends of the game for years, way before WotC dropped SWM. SSM was errata'd after the Mouse Droid was released, so obviously it was possible to get an errata in. Dean was the one who wrote the floor rules. You're right, they didn't care much about the game at that point; so if an errata had been made to say "Mouse Droids gain Diminuitive", DCI would have said "Yeah, whatever" and done it. DCI weren't the people writing floor rules or errata for this game.

Also, the game has been out of print and in our control for about 2 years now, and it hasn't changed over those 2 years, either. It's not like it hasn't been brought up before in that time. It's been brought up plenty. It wasn't changed any of those times, and I think there are even LESS compelling reasons to change it now.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:46 am 
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audrisampson wrote:
So let me get this straight Echo... Since something doesn't effect you and some other HOFers at the upper level tables of GenCon it becomes irrevelant, antiquated and not worth looking into??? Im sorry but that is what I get from your post.



One other thing I just thought of about this part: I got 21st at GenCon this year, putting me well into the bottom half. I was playing a squad that got hurt quite a bit by Mouse Walls. So yeah, this year at GenCon Mouse Droids did heavily effect me (although I only really saw them once, in the last round), and despite being a HoFer I wasn't AT the upper level tables to GenCon. So you are misinterpreting my entire point of view on the subject.

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"An elegant, easy-to-understand concept or mechanic that accomplishes 95% of what you want is much better than a clunky, obtuse mechanic that gets you 100%" - Rob Daviau

"You can't per aspera ad astra unless there's some aspera in front of your astra. And that means sometimes the aspera gets you." - Donald X. Vaccarino


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