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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:27 pm 
Grand Admiral
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audrisampson wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
But I don't think he's broken...he's a 65pt melee piece, for Pete's sake, so he'd better be good!


That isn't always the case. Having played most of the 60pt + melee pieces most are pretty mediocre. I would say that outside of Windu only maybe Mark Ragnos and Master Thon have any chance of being used in tourney play.


I think the following 60+ melee pieces are all really good - some of them do admittedly struggle with having Mace in the meta, who is a really strong anti-melee piece:
Corran Horn, Jedi Master - won a Regional this year
Master Vandar
Darth Revan, Sith Lord - won Regionals this year
Master Kavar - won a Regional this year
Lord Vader - came 2nd in GenCon 2010, although he is hampered by Mace being so popular and having Force Absorb
Darth Nihilus, Lord of Hunger - I almost got pwned by him yesterday - he's nasty when he keeps getting his health back, and stealing your jedi's force points.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:31 pm 
Warmaster
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I did forget Corran Horne when I made my list and I thought Revan was without question. However I can tell you I have tried and tried to get Master Vander to work in something serious and I think busting through a brick wall with my head is easier. As far as Nihlus I havent had a chance to play him yet even with as bad as I want him made but I seriously doubt he will hold up well against Storm Commandos, Mace, or many of the squads that take the top spots.

We are straying off topic again... oops

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Last edited by audrisampson on Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:32 pm 
Master of the Order
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thereisnotry wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
#2
Mace LotLS....When the guy who wins the World Championship uses him and says he's broken and tried to get him tempered in playtesting - you know there's a problem. A. Crits on 17,18,19,20 B. Triple damage on a crit C. extra attack on a crit. One of these needed to go

Actually, I don't ever recall saying that Mace was broken, because I don't think he is. I simply said the following:
Quote:
I think removing Flurry would solve that matter entirely. He could still do some crazy damage on his turn, but he would not have the infinite-damage capability that he has now.

In fact, I remember strongly urging the removal of Flurry during Playtesting, actually.

I urged dropping him to 60pts and removing Flurry. That was my suggestion. But I don't think he's broken...he's a 65pt melee piece, for Pete's sake, so he'd better be good!


Sorry, didn't mean to misquote. Drop the word broken. The spirit remains the same by urging the design team to lose flurry (the ability that provides unlimited damage potential.)


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:35 pm 
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TheHutts wrote:
Lord Vader - came 2nd in GenCon 2010, although he is hampered by Mace being so popular and having Force Absorb


He's not hampered, he doesn't have a chance in hell against Mace. Double force absorbs from Mace and he gets 2 force a round. LV walks up to him, twins and takes a riposte. A crit on the riposte and Vader has 50 HP left which means he's dead when Mace next activates. If Mace doesn't crit then Vader might see another round, but all he will do is 40 while taking another riposte.

There is NOTHING, LV can do, literally. His only hope is to have Mace in a Ysalimiri bubble with him outside assaulting him.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:12 pm 
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fingersandteeth wrote:
There is NOTHING, LV can do, literally. His only hope is to have Mace in a Ysalimiri bubble with him outside assaulting him.


Sure, I agree. Marka Ragnos, who Audri mentioned further up, has similar problems against Mace too, and almost any big melee piece that doesn't have parry or Soresu is going to find Mace difficult.

audrisampson wrote:
However I can tell you I have tried and tried to get Master Vander to work in something serious and I think busting through a brick wall with my head is easier.


You're probably right - I've found him pretty good in mucking around games, but I've never tried him in a tournament.

audrisampson wrote:
As far as Nihlus I havent had a chance to play him yet even with as bad as I want him made but I seriously doubt he will hold up well against Storm Commandos, Mace, or many of the squads that take the top spots.


Yeah, he's going to have problems against Ysalamari with all his reliance on Force. I reckon he could maybe give Mace a game though, if he's in the right setup.

audrisampson wrote:
We are straying off topic again... oops


I don't especially enjoy playing against:
i) Poggle the Lesser - if Geonosian Drones were 3 points they'd be fine, but a 2 point piece that is actually useful isn't very fun.

ii) Darth Zannah - I find her harder to kill than the other Soresu Style Mastery pieces, and her Lightsaber Combat Expert is really luck based.

I don't mind most of the other things - Lancer, Yobuck, and Mace all speed up the game, and it's slowness that makes the game least enjoyable for me.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:08 pm 
Dark Lord of the Sith
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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:02 pm 
Jedi Knight
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I generally second what others have said.

Mace
GOWK
Mouse Wall
Lord Vader (I just have craptastic luck vs him)
Pellaeon - Yes I know I use him, but come on
a 16 point piece that effs up squads lol.
San Hill, a Lancer, and 25 other pieces.
Naboo anything, meesa no lika the naboo. Or just Panaka.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:37 pm 
Third Jedi from the Left
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Well, playing on Throne Room used to be a NPE for me, but that's no longer an issue. So..... at this point, I don't really have any. I guess we'll see what shenanigans Vset 4 brings once the tourneys start rolling.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:03 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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1. Players who complain incessantly about anything that doesn't go their way. (dice, matchups, certain pieces)

2. Players who quit after losing an important piece in their squad.

3. Players who don't understand the rules and then accuse me of cheating, when all they have to do is read the card.


There are some people whom I tend to avoid playing on vassal for these reasons. Thankfully, there are very few of them; most players are great! :)

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:50 am 
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thereisnotry wrote:
1. Players who complain incessantly about anything that doesn't go their way. (dice, matchups, certain pieces)

2. Players who quit after losing an important piece in their squad.

3. Players who don't understand the rules and then accuse me of cheating, when all they have to do is read the card.


There are some people whom I tend to avoid playing on vassal for these reasons. Thankfully, there are very few of them; most players are great! :)


Thank God, Drew doesn't play competitively, you'd have a blast with him Trevor. A game with him isn't complete without all you just said, and throwing dice across the room, and him cursing your piece.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:26 am 
Warmaster
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TheHutts wrote:
Sure, I agree. Marka Ragnos, who Audri mentioned further up, has similar problems against Mace too, and almost any big melee piece that doesn't have parry or Soresu is going to find Mace difficult..


I play a lot of Jaina Solo, Sword of the Jedi. Even with her Parry, Mace tears her up. In what would probably be the perfect scenario for Jaina with a luke fs attached Windu destroyed her in the Kokomo regionals..

Run Jaina adjacent to Critdu... Roll attack, make attack. Critdu take damage, Riposte.. Crit, Parry, miss save, Force reroll, Critdu says no then swats again for 20, make save, attack two more times and hit. Jaina solo has 60 damage on her and Critdu has 60 damage on him. His turn to swing.. Dead Jaina generally.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:30 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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audrisampson wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Nice idea!
3. Mouse Swarms. Relay Orders on a 3pt piece is an excellent idea. But blocking LOS and movement is so annoying.


+1

The mouse droid was probably one of the better ideas WOTC had. Even giving it a base 20 defense so it could last was a good idea but allowing a figure the size of a foot to provide cover and hinder movement is STUPID.

By the way here is my fix for the card

Miniuature Stature - This figure may not provide cover, nor can it block movement of enemy pieces. Also it can not make attacks of opportunity.

That would answer so many problems and also fit in the flavor of the piece since you see them getting stepped over in the film whenever you see them.


+739 :evil:

:lol: my most annoying piece to play against?
:lol: my 'lil ponies :o

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:33 am 
Warmaster
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RaginRancor wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
Nice idea!
3. Mouse Swarms. Relay Orders on a 3pt piece is an excellent idea. But blocking LOS and movement is so annoying.


+1

The mouse droid was probably one of the better ideas WOTC had. Even giving it a base 20 defense so it could last was a good idea but allowing a figure the size of a foot to provide cover and hinder movement is STUPID.

By the way here is my fix for the card

Miniuature Stature - This figure may not provide cover, nor can it block movement of enemy pieces. Also it can not make attacks of opportunity.

That would answer so many problems and also fit in the flavor of the piece since you see them getting stepped over in the film whenever you see them.


+739 :evil:

:lol: my most annoying piece to play against?
:lol: my 'lil ponies :o


Awww... and here I thought the bright happy colors and cutie marks brought a little bit of visual happyness to the drap colorless game of SWM.. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:35 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Drab and colorless? Have you seen the maps? :lol:

What I'd like to see is your My-Lil-Ponies version of General Weir's Storm Commandos! :D

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:39 am 
Warmaster
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thereisnotry wrote:
Drab and colorless? Have you seen the maps? :lol:

What I'd like to see is your My-Lil-Ponies version of General Weir's Storm Commandos! :D


That would be awsome.. Im just not sure how I would do night vision googles on the ponies... painting them black would be the easy part LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:08 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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The thunderbolt squad, paint them black maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:29 am 
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1). Boba BH-back in the day, he was the quintessential cutthroat piece. Would you sell your soul for that lucky D? I knew several people in that quit and that this piece would bring tears to children. I have never played a piece that made victories feel so hollow.

2). Bastilla, JH- B----illa, as I call her, made every match feel pointless. I played Ian several times in VA during his run last year. As great a player as he is, I just could not take that (woman) down. The +10 damage was insult to injury when coupled with OR Senator.

I have a couple more but, I need to choke a Bith (intended remark) before I complete this.


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:40 pm 
Jedi Knight
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Charlotte and Atlanta guys will get this one.

Nick Ferguson


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 Post subject: Re: A survey of NPE's (Negative Play Experiences)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:45 pm 
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spryguy1981 wrote:
Charlotte and Atlanta guys will get this one.

Nick Ferguson


+1. And another one for Negative Judging Experience. :P

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