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Here's the thing you need to keep in mind about both Avoid Defeat and Covert Ops. The damage output has increased. Honestly, the Vset designers have been facing a two front battle. Making pieces that are comparable to the stuff WOTC made. That sadly has meant spreading out big damage throughout the other factions. Why do you think GOWK was unbanned? It wasn't the shift to 200. It would've alieviated his impact compared to 150, sure. But in the race to get the other factions as playable, as quickly as possible, major damage was spread out, along with increasing the current top tier faction's damage. So now, the defensive race has begun.

I can understand the distaste for such "random" elements as Avoid Defeat and Covert Ops in the top tier squads. But how prevalent has Evade been? Hopefully Covert Ops will the final "hate" towards Lancer and Yobuck, as I've seen some far to eager to eliminate those two pieces from the game. I don't see how it can be more NPE than any other defensive ability. It has a way around it. Simply don't move before you attack. Otherwise, certain abilities get the rightful neutering, GMA, Gallopping Attack, Strafe Attack, among others. As for Avoid Defeat, one complains about annoyance of not killing a figure. Another side complains about a 20 pt Jedi Hunter killing a Jedi twice their cost or Mace absolutely devastating figures. Whose side takes precedent? There will always be one element that someone won't like on a piece. The designers job isn't to please everyone, or cater to one crowd. It is to make a set that will hopefully have enough good stuff that it won't completely alienate one crowd.

Author:	urbanjedi [ Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Scum & Villainy!
I think what the squib (and the veteran uggie) do is make it so that door control (specifically override) see slightly less play. With the knowledge that your opp may have some way to easily avoid being locked out, the ability to lockout is somewhat less attractive. Anything that makes for more fighting and engagement is good for the game IMO. There are many maps that 1 door is all it takes to get rid of to prevent the lockout. Shatterbeam or Satchel on your big beat can mean that you can actually get to that door now instead of yobuck running through your uggs and then R2 shutting the door in your face.

Author:	DarthJawa [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Scum & Villainy!
urbanjedi wrote: The mando will be much more useful for his battle ready ability and his ability to hand out parry/evade than COT IMO. i agree completely. In playtesting battle ready was a great abillity and made them much more competitive. It in combination with giving canderous evade (and greater mobile) it allowed him to get into a great position to get 6 shots off quickly. it can be quite useful.

Author:	TimmerB123 [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Scum & Villainy!
New Republic Mara Jade makes me so angry I could spit. Hey - here's a great idea - let's take an already stupid ability that relies solely on luck, then give it to a beatstick. Wouldn't that be fun? A beatstick that can literally live forever? A Oh wait - even better, a give it to a beatstick with force points. Better still, a character with force renewal. Ooo, ooo - wait . . . AND Master of the Force 2. Hey great. I guess we could throw on draw fire too! Now lets let her hand out this ability as a CE to OTHER force users. That's smart. Oh - hey, the kicker is it's in a faction where you can easily gain a CE that allows rerolls for failed saves. I hate avoid defeat.

Author:	Sithborg [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Scum & Villainy!
Here's the thing you need to keep in mind about both Avoid Defeat and Covert Ops. The damage output has increased. Honestly, the Vset designers have been facing a two front battle. Making pieces that are comparable to the stuff WOTC made. That sadly has meant spreading out big damage throughout the other factions. Why do you think GOWK was unbanned? It wasn't the shift to 200. It would've alieviated his impact compared to 150, sure. But in the race to get the other factions as playable, as quickly as possible, major damage was spread out, along with increasing the current top tier faction's damage. So now, the defensive race has begun. I can understand the distaste for such "random" elements as Avoid Defeat and Covert Ops in the top tier squads. But how prevalent has Evade been? Hopefully Covert Ops will the final "hate" towards Lancer and Yobuck, as I've seen some far to eager to eliminate those two pieces from the game. I don't see how it can be more NPE than any other defensive ability. It has a way around it. Simply don't move before you attack. Otherwise, certain abilities get the rightful neutering, GMA, Gallopping Attack, Strafe Attack, among others. As for Avoid Defeat, one complains about annoyance of not killing a figure. Another side complains about a 20 pt Jedi Hunter killing a Jedi twice their cost or Mace absolutely devastating figures. Whose side takes precedent? There will always be one element that someone won't like on a piece. The designers job isn't to please everyone, or cater to one crowd. It is to make a set that will hopefully have enough good stuff that it won't completely alienate one crowd.

Author:	Echo [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Scum & Villainy!
Sithborg wrote: Here's the thing you need to keep in mind about both Avoid Defeat and Covert Ops. The damage output has increased. Honestly, the Vset designers have been facing a two front battle. Making pieces that are comparable to the stuff WOTC made. That sadly has meant spreading out big damage throughout the other factions. Why do you think GOWK was unbanned? It wasn't the shift to 200. It would've alieviated his impact compared to 150, sure. But in the race to get the other factions as playable, as quickly as possible, major damage was spread out, along with increasing the current top tier faction's damage. So now, the defensive race has begun. I can understand the distaste for such "random" elements as Avoid Defeat and Covert Ops in the top tier squads. But how prevalent has Evade been? Hopefully Covert Ops will the final "hate" towards Lancer and Yobuck, as I've seen some far to eager to eliminate those two pieces from the game. I don't see how it can be more NPE than any other defensive ability. It has a way around it. Simply don't move before you attack. Otherwise, certain abilities get the rightful neutering, GMA, Gallopping Attack, Strafe Attack, among others. As for Avoid Defeat, one complains about annoyance of not killing a figure. Another side complains about a 20 pt Jedi Hunter killing a Jedi twice their cost or Mace absolutely devastating figures. Whose side takes precedent? There will always be one element that someone won't like on a piece. The designers job isn't to please everyone, or cater to one crowd. It is to make a set that will hopefully have enough good stuff that it won't completely alienate one crowd. I agree in general (especially regarding Avoid Defeat, as it doesn't really bother me), but I do really dislike Covert Ops Training and think it's the worst ability that has been created to date. It's significantly more powerful than Parry or Evade because it is harder to circumvent; you can shoot someone with Parry and you can base someone with Evade, but having to not move is a lot harder to do I think. It also works on both melee and non-melee attacks, which is a pain. There IS the ability to just be farther than 6 squares when you attack, but in a faction with lots of Stealth and Cloaked even that can be difficult. I just think it's way too much in a single ability, and it really discourages engagement, which I think makes it a pretty big NPE. Is it going to be game-breakingly strong? Nah. Do I agree that damage has ramped up a lot lately and that should be taken down a notch? Absolutely! (I still feel a twinge of disappointment when I see Eeth Koth not being the defensive powerhouse that I wanted him to be) That said, though, I think there are much better ways to handle it that are less offensive than Covert Ops Training.

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Author:	Echo [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Scum & Villainy!
I also have to agree that I think the Squib Trader is vastly overrated by some people. I don't see it being worth its cost at all and don't expect to ever play it; it just slows your squad down so much. Yeah, giving Relay Orders or Satchel Charge to a Diplomat or whatever is pretty awesome, but is it really worth 10 points? I don't see it. I'm willing to be proven wrong, though. Other than that, there is a lot of solid stuff. I absolutely love both Lowbacca and Anakin Solo, and Satele Shan is quite solid.

Author:	Sithborg [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Scum & Villainy!
The top tier squads already won't be needing the Squib, sure. But I see him being well worth it in big beat type squads. You shave a few points by giving a big beat Relay Orders to give out Holosid's CE, rather than risk Holosid or fit in a lot of Mice. It's useful, just not to a lot of squads that a lot of the top players already play.

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