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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:19 pm 
Death Star Designers
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
On the map rotation thing is that something we even need? We have the back of Catina that could be easily used in restricted and so far Mas Transit 4 looks pretty good. That puts us at roughly 20 maps that would be legal in restricted play. That is already a ton of diversity and maybe it would get Anchorhead and a few others that don't see as much play back into use over time.


In my opinion, those are statements for a rotation. We have a lot of good maps on the Restricted List and some aren't seeing play. Essentially, any sort of rotation would cut the list in half with each half having half the year in competitive play. Variety, if split right, would stay the same but the maps we see should increase.


Yep, I think this is totally true. You want Ancorhead or Mos Eisley Residence to see play? Put them on a much smaller list (6-8) and have that be the restricted list. That's one of the main reasons I want to see a rotation.

The other reason is that it lowers the barrier of entry for new players. Right now there are 15 legal maps; that's a lot of maps to learn. If it were just 6-8, new players would be able to get a handle on them much more easily just because there is less of them at once.

One problem with that is that when the list changes they have to learn a WHOLE new list. That's why I think that only half the list should actually rotate at a time. Say we split the list up into 3 groups of 4 and a group of 3 maps, named A, B, C, D, where D has 3 maps.

In January 2013, lists A and B will be legal.
In July 2013, list A will no longer be legal but list C will be, so lists B and C are legal.
In January 2014 lists C and D are legal.
In July 2014, lists D and A are legal.

Now every map has been legal at some point, and each map has been legal for a total of 12 out of the 24 months. For any given set of 12 months there has also been some maps that have been consistent. That way if you start playing in, say, Fall of 2013, you can learn maps on list C and they will be legal all the way until July 2014 instead of learning maps and then they become illegal in January 2013.

In January 2015 you can switch up all the lists and do it again.

One problem with this is that it makes it very difficult to add new maps to the rotation, but I'm sure that could be handled somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:21 pm 
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...ok, now I have to ask...why are we changing even more rules?

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:24 pm 
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You changed my mind Echo. I really like what you have going on with the 4 rotation system.

As far as new maps, I would say add them to the list that is the next coming around. For example, If a map comes out during "A-B" it gets added to C. When the rotation restarts after the two years then the map can be added to a new appriopriate list or removed to the standard list if it turns out to be poor.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:25 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
You changed my mind Echo. I really like what you have going on with the 4 rotation system.

As far as new maps, I would say add them to the list that is the next coming around. For example, If a map comes out during "A-B" it gets added to C. When the rotation restarts after the two years then the map can be added to a new appriopriate list or removed to the standard list if it turns out to be poor.



Look back a couple pages, this A-B-C-D rotation is one of the options for discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:28 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
You changed my mind Echo. I really like what you have going on with the 4 rotation system.

As far as new maps, I would say add them to the list that is the next coming around. For example, If a map comes out during "A-B" it gets added to C. When the rotation restarts after the two years then the map can be added to a new appriopriate list or removed to the standard list if it turns out to be poor.



Look back a couple pages, this A-B-C-D rotation is one of the options for discussion.


Well, your version was a little different than what I suggested. I believe that you suggested having all 4 map lists potentially legal, with GenCon using all 4 lists and other events being able to pick and choose. My version would strictly have 2 of the 4 lists legal at any given time, and that be the entire restricted list for those 6 months.

Also, glad you like it, Audri. I came up with the idea a while back and have always thought it was the best way to deal with a rotating map list. Throwing new maps into the upcoming block probably is the best way to handle them.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:34 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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Echo wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
You changed my mind Echo. I really like what you have going on with the 4 rotation system.

As far as new maps, I would say add them to the list that is the next coming around. For example, If a map comes out during "A-B" it gets added to C. When the rotation restarts after the two years then the map can be added to a new appriopriate list or removed to the standard list if it turns out to be poor.



Look back a couple pages, this A-B-C-D rotation is one of the options for discussion.


Well, your version was a little different than what I suggested. I believe that you suggested having all 4 map lists potentially legal, with GenCon using all 4 lists and other events being able to pick and choose. My version would strictly have 2 of the 4 lists legal at any given time, and that be the entire restricted list for those 6 months.

Also, glad you like it, Audri. I came up with the idea a while back and have always thought it was the best way to deal with a rotating map list. Throwing new maps into the upcoming block probably is the best way to handle them.



Oh, yeah, that was a simplified version of this; which is what I highly favor. I never mentioned it because I think it's more complex? 8 maps for 6 months is a lot easier to memorize isn't it, over 4 maps every three months?

Seems to me, that it would also come down to a "which month is it?" kind of deal. I dunno, but it's definately the favorite for me, I'm just not sure it balances ease as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:42 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Echo wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
You changed my mind Echo. I really like what you have going on with the 4 rotation system.

As far as new maps, I would say add them to the list that is the next coming around. For example, If a map comes out during "A-B" it gets added to C. When the rotation restarts after the two years then the map can be added to a new appriopriate list or removed to the standard list if it turns out to be poor.



Look back a couple pages, this A-B-C-D rotation is one of the options for discussion.


Well, your version was a little different than what I suggested. I believe that you suggested having all 4 map lists potentially legal, with GenCon using all 4 lists and other events being able to pick and choose. My version would strictly have 2 of the 4 lists legal at any given time, and that be the entire restricted list for those 6 months.

Also, glad you like it, Audri. I came up with the idea a while back and have always thought it was the best way to deal with a rotating map list. Throwing new maps into the upcoming block probably is the best way to handle them.



Oh, yeah, that was a simplified version of this; which is what I highly favor. I never mentioned it because I think it's more complex? 8 maps for 6 months is a lot easier to memorize isn't it, over 4 maps every three months?

Seems to me, that it would also come down to a "which month is it?" kind of deal. I dunno, but it's definately the favorite for me, I'm just not sure it balances ease as well.


I don't think you're quite understanding it, because nothing has to do with three months, and it's still 8 maps every 6 months. It's just that instead of changing ALL 8 maps every 6 months, you only change half of them. So You have an 8 map restricted list that starts in January, then in July, 4 of the maps get replaced by a different 4 maps. Then in January, the 4 maps that didn't get removed in July get replaces by a different 4 maps (and the ones added in July stay on).

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:43 pm 
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If you do that, PLEASE go 8 for six months. That gives the players who play weekly at local metas a good chance to buy the in rotation maps and learn them. If I had to see only 4 maps, by the last month I would be so sick of them I would puke.. Also what would 4 maps do to GenCon or the regionals.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Echo wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Echo wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
You changed my mind Echo. I really like what you have going on with the 4 rotation system.

As far as new maps, I would say add them to the list that is the next coming around. For example, If a map comes out during "A-B" it gets added to C. When the rotation restarts after the two years then the map can be added to a new appriopriate list or removed to the standard list if it turns out to be poor.



Look back a couple pages, this A-B-C-D rotation is one of the options for discussion.


Well, your version was a little different than what I suggested. I believe that you suggested having all 4 map lists potentially legal, with GenCon using all 4 lists and other events being able to pick and choose. My version would strictly have 2 of the 4 lists legal at any given time, and that be the entire restricted list for those 6 months.

Also, glad you like it, Audri. I came up with the idea a while back and have always thought it was the best way to deal with a rotating map list. Throwing new maps into the upcoming block probably is the best way to handle them.



Oh, yeah, that was a simplified version of this; which is what I highly favor. I never mentioned it because I think it's more complex? 8 maps for 6 months is a lot easier to memorize isn't it, over 4 maps every three months?

Seems to me, that it would also come down to a "which month is it?" kind of deal. I dunno, but it's definately the favorite for me, I'm just not sure it balances ease as well.


I don't think you're quite understanding it, because nothing has to do with three months, and it's still 8 maps every 6 months. It's just that instead of changing ALL 8 maps every 6 months, you only change half of them. So You have an 8 map restricted list that starts in January, then in July, 4 of the maps get replaced by a different 4 maps. Then in January, the 4 maps that didn't get removed in July get replaces by a different 4 maps (and the ones added in July stay on).



Oh, yeah, I see now.

Devil's Advocate: Since so many people see this as a season would you ever see the 4 maps that would change in July? For instance, 1-8 are on the list in January, but 5-8 will be the ones that don't leave for Gencon. Wouldn't most everyone just play 5-8 then?

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Just to show what Echo is saying from what I understand:

"A" January 2013-July 2013
Cloud City
Ravaged Base
Theed Palace
Rebel Base (back of Cantina)
Cargo Docks
Cantina
Jabba's Palace
Mas Transit 4 map

"B" July 2013-January 2014
Theed Palace
Rancor Pit
Rhen Var
New Map

"C" January 2014-July 2014
Asteroid Base
Anchorhead
Smugglers base
Bothan Spy Net

"D" July 2014-January 2015
Mos Eisley Residence
Shipping Center
Peacful City
New Map

On the first rotation you take out the most abused 4 maps of the season then add the second rotation. Follow that system from then on..

No I don't think so about playing the same maps at GenCon. You would have a nice element of suprise if you used the new map that maybe a player wasn't used to.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:56 pm 
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
Devil's Advocate: Since so many people see this as a season would you ever see the 4 maps that would change in July? For instance, 1-8 are on the list in January, but 5-8 will be the ones that don't leave for Gencon. Wouldn't most everyone just play 5-8 then?


*shrug* That's why it should be changed in September. :P

But seriously, if people knew what maps would be legal from July to January, they would surely check out those new maps and see if there is one they would like, and then still practice on it even when it isn't in the restricted list. Or you'll get long-time players who have a favorite map that will play it at GenCon if it's added in July; for example, if Ravaged Base were one of the July adds, I would very much consider playing it depending on what squad I was thinking about using for GenCon.

Also, as Audri points out, the element of surprise for maps is a pretty big deal, so if you can cram in some practice time with a newly added map you should be able to take some opponents by surprise. Just that would make a new map more attractive.

Maybe the newly added maps would get played a little less than the older ones, but I don't think it would be too extreme.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:59 pm 
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This would maybe encourage the Custom map makers to do more since the tournament players would need those new maps when they rotated in :P

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:01 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
Just to show what Echo is saying from what I understand:

"A" January 2013-July 2013
Cloud City
Ravaged Base
Theed Palace
Rebel Base (back of Cantina)
Cargo Docks
Cantina
Jabba's Palace
Mas Transit 4 map

"B" July 2013-January 2014
Theed Palace
Rancor Pit
Rhen Var
New Map

"C" January 2014-July 2014
Asteroid Base
Anchorhead
Smugglers base
Bothan Spy Net

"D" July 2014-January 2015
Mos Eisley Residence
Shipping Center
Peacful City
New Map

On the first rotation you take out the most abused 4 maps of the season then add the second rotation. Follow that system from then on..

No I don't think so about playing the same maps at GenCon. You would have a nice element of suprise if you used the new map that maybe a player wasn't used to.



My idea is actually much more strict than this, because you would already know what is being taken off instead of choosing just the 4 "most abused" maps. So something more like:

"A"
Cloud City
Ravaged Base
Theed Palace
Cargo Docks

"B"
Theed Palace
Rancor Pit
Rhen Var
Cantina

"C"
Asteroid Base
Anchorhead
Smugglers base
Bothan Spy Net

"D"
Mos Eisley Residence
Shipping Center
Peacful City
Jabba's Palace


A+B is legal January 2013-July 2013
B+C is legal July 2013-January 2014
C+D is legal January 2014-July 2014
D+A is legal July 2014-January 2015

New maps can just be added as necessary, so some lists map grow to be 5 or 6 maps long instead of just 4 and the full restricted list could be 10 maps or so.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:05 pm 
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I wouldn't argue against that at all. The big difference in our designs is mine allows for the quick removal of an abused map without disturbing the rotations..

You would also probably have to go with 5-6 maps per section to add in new maps coming out and some that already could be added to Restricted.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Echo wrote:
That's why it should be changed in September.


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:49 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Echo wrote:
That's why it should be changed in September.


+1


What is wrong with shaking up GenCon. Why have more of the same old that we have seen all regional long??? It's not like you can even really rely on the Tournament reports anyway because Vset 4 will be legal the monday afterwards. At least with a map change players can look over how people adjusted to the new maps changes that were brought in for GenCon.

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Last edited by audrisampson on Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:58 pm 
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audrisampson wrote:
It's not like you can even really rely on the Tournament reports anyway because Vset 4 has come out afterwards.

Just to avoid misunderstandings, you're aware that V-set 4 pieces will NOT be legal for use in the Championships, right? The sentence I quoted seems to imply otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:56 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
It's not like you can even really rely on the Tournament reports anyway because Vset 4 has come out afterwards.

Just to avoid misunderstandings, you're aware that V-set 4 pieces will NOT be legal for use in the Championships, right? The sentence I quoted seems to imply otherwise.


Yeah, I am I edited my post to make it a bit more clear of what I mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:24 am 
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Good morning all. Please bare with me i am typing on my phone and it sucks. After reading through all of the comments on here i felt as if i should voice my opinion as well. I personally am completly for the map rotations and changing maps. I also am completly for the timing of this as well. Now let me explaon my reasoning on this. Before playing swm i used to play magic the gathering very competetivly. I would travel around just as i do now and go to star city games. The thing with magic is that every three months a new set of cards were brought out and it eliminated the old set in standard. Wjich would change the game play and the deck strategies. The thing is with that being said they didnt care if it was a starcity games event, gencon, or worlds. It happened and regardless on what it would do for the enviroment. They never postponed it do to a big tourney coming up and it may screw with some players techniques. They did it so it would change the gameplay, the strategies, and above all else keep ot from becoming stale. Now the reason i bring this example up is because yes we have new v sets coming out regularly and maps every year however we dont take away mins whe.n we add them so the onky way to keep the game fresh and propelling forward is by changing the dynamics of it every now and then.with this the maps are not gone forever we dont need to have a funeral pyre for all the copies of thrkne room they can and will come back. But with what limited resources we have to keep the game ever moving forward we have to use them all. With this being sad if you are so dependant on on map and if that map is the onky one you can win on then what happens when you loose map roll. This isnt somehing to deter people from playing it is a tool to expand your playing skills allows you to learn new maps and new squads. I am completly for the changes

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 Post subject: Re: Floor Rules update July 1, 2012
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Shawn +1

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