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 Post subject: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:44 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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So, I was playing Thereisnotry on Vassal last night and the topic of the best piece for its cost came up and I thought "this would make a good forum topic". I figure some are obvious choices (like Doombot at 9 points, there's really no argument there, he's the best 9 points), but others are debatable. So I figured it would be fun to pick some point values and opine.

16: I'm going with Dr. Evazan GC here. Since he's fringe he can fit it any squad. He has 50 hp so he can stay alive, he's the cheapest piece with the highest, unstoppable autodamage, plus it can also be used to heal your guys. On top of that he has avoid defeat, grants avoid defeat, and even has opportunist. Can't really do better than him.

10: Figrin D'an. Another Cantina Brawl choice here. The combination of evade, draw fire and distraction make him a great reserves choice in many squads, especially against anything that needs to be adjacent to put the hurt on. If he had 50 hp he'd be completely sick, but even at 40 he's still super useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:47 pm 
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14. I think it has to be Rieekan for rather obvious reasons, with Exar DFS the only other one close. For non-uniques, Wookiee Freedom Fighter. Nothing else stands out at 14, IMO.

19. Popular slot for commanders. I think this one goes to Yomin Carr. He's cheap enough to provide a secondary means of damaging the enemy, and with the Yammosk spreading his CE to allies, it really sucks to be a meatbag. For non-commanders, there is stuff like the Red Squadron Ace, A-Series Droid, Wookiee Elite Warrior, YY Fanatic, and Mando Scout. All potent with the right support, but the Scout has the best perks built in.


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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:03 pm 
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26. Jedi Weapon Master. YV Ossus Guardian is a close second.

27. Oh, where to start:
Lobot
Han Smuggler
Ferus Olin
Darth Bandon

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:18 pm 
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3 pts. Toss up, but I think I gotta go with Mouse Droids. Uggies and Rodians are both great too. Ewoks suck now and Geonosian drones are only good with Poggle (and then they are 2 pts!)

4 pts - Gran Raider. Awesome swappers, stealth and cheap. Always forget they have mobile attack too! Workers are a close second. Can't be beat with Nom, but that's their ONLY real use.

5 pts - Salacious Crumb: Wall climber + distraction = awesome for 5 pts. Rodian Diplomats close behind, and then perhaps Raxus Prime troopers.

6 pts - tough call. None REALLY stand out. I guess Advance Scout. Cheapest thud bug in the game, and great Nom Bombs.

7 pts - really packed category. I think I gotta go with Aqualish Assassin, because of versatility. Leia Organa, Senator is sweet but the fact that she is a Leia (and therefore doesn't let you use any other Leia) hurts her. Felucians are also good, and with the shamans have something going for them. Overall - Aqualish is good in almost any squad.

8 pts - Gotta go with Mas Amedda. R7 is a really strong contender, but Mas is so ridiculous it's stupid. Honorable mention to Wicket

9 pts - I wrestled with this one, but I think it's R2-D2 Astromech. But MAN Dodonna is hard to edge out. Poggle the lesser is amazing too, but a distant third to these 2 auto-includes.

10 pts - I guess it has become Figrin D'an, but it is another packed category. San Hill and Dark Hellion on Swoops are amazing, and Chazrachs are SOOO goot for their cost. Massifs are the overlooked Lobot reinforcement for swap fodder, but still less then the above pieces.

(This is fun, I'll update as I have more time)


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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:11 pm 
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50 points - Han Solo, Galactic Hero with a bullet. The only other decent piece at 50 is Vader Unleashed, and after that it totally falls off a cliff (Jabba the Hutt, Young Krayt Dragon, crappy old Boba Fett)

51 points - I was surprised to see that there were more 51 point characters than 50 point, and many of them are very strong. Yoda on Kybuck would be my choice, but Celeste Morne is very solid, Durge Jedi Hunter shows up in Tile Wars and anchors the benchmark Dynamic Duo team, and the Basilisk War Droid isn't a slouch by any means. When Joruus C'Baoth is only the fifth-best piece at a price point, the competition is pretty strong.

52 points - In contrast, 52 points is a barren wasteland. You have rubbish Darth Malak, rubbish Dooku, and the remarkably overpriced Master K'Kruhk. So while it isn't what most people would call a good piece, the Felucian Warrior on Rancor pretty much wins by default. It shows up in weird Nom Anor squads, at least.

53 points - Yet another old, bad Vader squares off against the quadruple attack Maul that no one in their right mind would ever play over Sith Infiltrator. Compared to them, Lumiya, the Dark Lady offers an interesting set of abilities and can hilariously self-destruct 40 over everyone within 3 squares. She also goes great with many of the new commanders we've been putting out.

54 points - Ooooh, this is a tough one - Cad Bane versus Kyle Katarn JBM versus Jaster Mereel! Hmm, I gotta demerit Kyle Katarn, since no one really plays him anymore. While Cad Bane is fringe and can play a main role in all kinds of squads, Jaster Mereel practically serves as the backbone of his faction. Let's go with Jaster.

55 points - GOWK, by a lot. But there are a surprisingly large number of decent characters at this price. Vader Scourge will play a role in the game as long as Jedi exist and Grand Master Yoda shows up in Daniel's Monster Mash squads. Even the lower-tier offerings like Freedon Nadd, Kazdan Paratus, and Belth Alusis anchor less-good but not awful squads.

56 points - Jaina Solo, Sword of the Jedi easily beats out Darth Talon and old-ass Jango Fett.

57 points - Separatists are loaded at this price point! GGDAC was the beating heart of the faction for years, Darth Maul Sith Infiltrator is the best beatstick they have by some margin, Asajj Ventress probably held that title before New Maul took it, and Dooku Separatist Leader would anchor reserve squads if his CE wasn't ridiculously complicated and Wuher didn't stab his squads in the eye. Mando Boba Fett also comes in at this price, and while he has fallen from favor, it's never fun to go against a bunch of accurate-shooting Scouts. GGDAC wins, but it's another strong category. Even the best of the rest isn't awful - Sith Sidious isn't awful, and Roan Fel doesn't totally suck. Maul on speeder bike, unfortunately, does.

58 points - Eugh, we go from bounty to drought. Fortunately Boba Fett, Mercenary costs 58 points, because otherwise it'd be Wookiee Hunter AT-ST versus Grievous's Wheel Bike. Why is it "Grievous's Wheel Bike" instead of "Grievous on Wheel Bike"? Like, all I get is the bike? No wonder it sucks so much. And I'm just curious - if the Empire had all these custom wookiee hunting AT-STs lying around armed with... net guns, I guess... why didn't they send those to Endor? The ewoks wouldn't have had a chance!

59 points - Huh, there aren't any characters who cost 59 points? Give us something, v-set designers!

60 points - Hmm, evidently this is the price point of choice for second-tier beatsticks. Corran Horn, Jedi Master is the cream of the crop, but Nas Choka, Vandar, and Kid Fister, while not the first choice of the astute squad-builder, do show up from time to time. Then you have Darth Caedus and Nomi Sunrider, characters that suck despite having ridiculously complicated abilities. Plus yet another bad old Vader and the Leviathan.

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:56 pm 
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11- Naboo Pilot
12- Gha Naught
13- Gamo BG
14- General Rieekan
15- Whiphid Tracker ( I can't think of any other 15 pointers lol)
16- Doc Evazon
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain
19- Mando Scout
20- Whorm Loathesome

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:04 pm 
Grand Admiral
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Weeks wrote:
11- Naboo Pilot
12- Gha Naught
13- Gamo BG
14- General Rieekan
15- Whiphid Tracker ( I can't think of any other 15 pointers lol)
16- Doc Evazon
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain
19- Mando Scout
20- Whorm Loathesome


There are some good 15s - Yammosk, new Ponda Baba, Momaw Nadon.


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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:07 pm 
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TheHutts wrote:
Weeks wrote:
11- Naboo Pilot
12- Gha Naught
13- Gamo BG
14- General Rieekan
15- Whiphid Tracker ( I can't think of any other 15 pointers lol)
16- Doc Evazon
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain
19- Mando Scout
20- Whorm Loathesome


There are some good 15s - Yammosk, new Ponda Baba, Momaw Nadon.


Oh ya, duh! I suck at this game.

15- Yammosk

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:09 pm 
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You did it off the top of your head though - I thought of Ponda Baba, then checked Bloomilk to see if there was anyone better. Nice Rush reference in your Regional squad.


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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:40 pm 
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Weeks wrote:
TheHutts wrote:
Weeks wrote:
11- Naboo Pilot
12- Gha Naught
13- Gamo BG
14- General Rieekan
15- Whiphid Tracker ( I can't think of any other 15 pointers lol)
16- Doc Evazon
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain
19- Mando Scout
20- Whorm Loathesome


There are some good 15s - Yammosk, new Ponda Baba, Momaw Nadon.


Oh ya, duh! I suck at this game.

15- Yammosk


I'd think the Yuuzhan Vong Hunter on Quednak would be a good 20pt piece also. It saves the vong's against high activations/mouse walls. Not to mention a decent ranged threat for the Vong. I do agree that Whorm is one of the best commanders in the game and for 20pts he's a steal.

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:12 pm 
Third Jedi from the Left
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Was looking at the lower 30s

30. is a hard choice. There's a bunch of decent pieces, but nothing that totally stands out. You have the Gray Jedi, Han Solo rogue, Kal Skirata, Mical, Obi-Wan JP, Shedao Shai, Vergere, and Xizor. So basically some pieces that can be useful in certain situations. if I had to pick just one I'd go with Xizor since he's a fringe commander and the Black Sun sub-faction keeps getting better.

31. Lancer. Arica and Tyber Zann are a close 2nd especially since Tyber will only get better with future V-sets.

32. Thrawn Nothing else really comes close. Eeth Koth could be interesting though.

33. Bastila Shan There are quite a few other really good pieces at this cost though, many are nearly auto-includes in certain sqauds: Captain Rex, Sora Bulq, Potty Palps. Jaden Korr has potential.

34. There are a couple usable pieces but Nom Anor is the best overall since he's in, like, half of the good Vong squads.

35. Quite a few interesting and fun pieces at this level. AniStap, Han Rebel Hero, AT-RT, Onimi, Wat Tambor, Wookiee Jedi, Zuckuss bounty hunter. Ultimately, at least in a 200 point squad, AniStap wins. At 500 I'd go with Zuckuss. He's beast with Furious Assault.

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:20 pm 
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I'll take a stab at the 70's.

70- Loda as he is the only mini that costs 70

71- Only 2 sitting here currently and they are both Vaders. Lord Vader and LotF. I have to give it good old Lord Vader, not that the other is a slouch, he just has never seen as much top 8 as good old LV.

72- General Windu or Shimraa? Gotta go with Shimraa just because I haven't seen anyone even use the General since 2007.

73- anything that ever gets released that costs 73 because nothing currently does.

74- here we go, Luke Jedi Master or ... well it looks like it is LSJM by default. I also predict GMLS will win his price point as well on the same principle.

75- Darth Vader Jedi Hunter or Mandalore the Ultimate. I have to go with Mandalore, even though my pet name for him is Mandalore the Ultimate Waste of Points. If the Imps ever get a Whorm Loathsome CE DVJH will be back with a vengeance, until then he will enjoy retirement.

76- Darth Krayt or Marka Ragnos. Gotta go with Ragnos by a mile and he hasn't even completely fleshed out yet.

77- Nada

78- Ditto

79- etc.

Special category- since there are so few minis in the 70 point range overall best mini costing 70-79:

Toss up between Ragnos and Lord Vader, but I gotta pick one.
Sith for the win, its Ragnos!

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:37 pm 
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40s!

40: I think the two very good ones here are Plo Koon JM and Carnor Jax, and it could go either way, I think they're both viable options for competitive play at the moment. Maybe Plo Koon, JM?

41: not a whole lot here, Atris is the clear winner IMO

42: some useful, yet not overwhelming, pieces here - Dessel, Silri, Kit Fisto JM. I think The Revanchist is just in front of this bunch.

43: IG-88, Assassin Droid is about to get some play with the new IG-88 coming out soon. Asajj Ventress, Separatist Assassin is dangerous though, if Living Seps get better support.

44: goodness, there's nothing good here.... Obi-Wan Kenobi, Unleashed has his uses, but a Rebel force push squad is usually going to build around Vader's Apprentice and Luke HPU and ignore him. But he's still probably better than Lord Hoth, Vodo-Siosk Baas, IG-88, Bounty Hunter, Clone Strike Grievous, and Darth Nihilus.

45: comes down to husband vs wife: Luke's Snowspeeder vs Mara Jade, Jedi - I give it to Mara Jade, Jedi, as she's obviously the best Mara while Snowspeeder has to fight with other Lukes for gametime.

46: a bunch of decent pieces with no clear winner, Vader SA, Han Solo Scoundrel, Saesee Tinn JM, X-1 Viper, Kyle Katarn CI, Yuuzhan Vong Fire Breather - I'm calling Darth Vader, Sith Apprentice but it's almost like a 6 way tie.

47: General Skywalker ftw over Luke's Landspeeder, Mira, and Shaak Ti JM

48: Darth Zannah over the Vader's Apprentices

49: Pretty much comes down to Jedi Exile vs Darth Malak, Dark Lord of the Sith. It's close, as they're equivalent, both commanders with strong CEs and good attacking powers but too fragile to use as front line fighters, but I'd probably give it to Jedi Exile.


Last edited by TheHutts on Sun May 20, 2012 6:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Weeks wrote:
11- Naboo Pilot
12- Gha Naught
13- Gamo BG
14- General Rieekan
15- Whiphid Tracker ( I can't think of any other 15 pointers lol)
16- Doc Evazon
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain
19- Mando Scout
20- Whorm Loathesome

11- Naboo Pilot Admiral Ozzel
12- Gha Nachkt
13- Gamo BG close with czerka scientist, Amanin scout a little behind
14- General Rieekan (Exar DFS second)
15- Whiphid Tracker (You fixed it!) Yammosk Momaw 2nd
16- Doc Evazon Close, but I gotta say Elite Rebel Commando. Madine close behind
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain Twi'lek BSV close second, Nyna or Jar Jar 3rd
19- Mando Scout Yomin Carr close, and A-series assassin droid 3rd
20- Whorm Loathsom Princess Leia is VERY close


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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:57 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Weeks wrote:
11- Naboo Pilot
12- Gha Naught
13- Gamo BG
14- General Rieekan
15- Whiphid Tracker ( I can't think of any other 15 pointers lol)
16- Doc Evazon
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain
19- Mando Scout
20- Whorm Loathesome

11- Naboo Pilot Admiral Ozzel
12- Gha Nachkt
13- Gamo BG close with czerka scientist, Amanin scout a little behind
14- General Rieekan (Exar DFS second)
15- Whiphid Tracker (You fixed it!) Yammosk Momaw 2nd
16- Doc Evazon Close, but I gotta say Elite Rebel Commando. Madine close behind
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain Twi'lek BSV close second, Nyna or Jar Jar 3rd
19- Mando Scout Yomin Carr close, and A-series assassin droid 3rd
20- Whorm Loathsom Princess Leia is VERY close


Ozzel is either a boon or a bane. He either makes the game fully in your favor or completely hoses your chances at winning. I could understand an argument for Human BG but not Ozzel.

Point for point I'd take either the pilot or the bg over Ozzel every time.

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:09 pm 
Master of the Order
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Weeks wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
Weeks wrote:
11- Naboo Pilot
12- Gha Naught
13- Gamo BG
14- General Rieekan
15- Whiphid Tracker ( I can't think of any other 15 pointers lol)
16- Doc Evazon
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain
19- Mando Scout
20- Whorm Loathesome

11- Naboo Pilot Admiral Ozzel
12- Gha Nachkt
13- Gamo BG close with czerka scientist, Amanin scout a little behind
14- General Rieekan (Exar DFS second)
15- Whiphid Tracker (You fixed it!) Yammosk Momaw 2nd
16- Doc Evazon Close, but I gotta say Elite Rebel Commando. Madine close behind
17- IG-86
18- Klatoonian Captain Twi'lek BSV close second, Nyna or Jar Jar 3rd
19- Mando Scout Yomin Carr close, and A-series assassin droid 3rd
20- Whorm Loathsom Princess Leia is VERY close


Ozzel is either a boon or a bane. He either makes the game fully in your favor or completely hoses your chances at winning. I could understand an argument for Human BG but not Ozzel.

Point for point I'd take either the pilot or the bg over Ozzel every time.


Now with Pellaeon he's not much of a risk. He wins games.


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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:14 pm 
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you won plenty of games without him yesterday at the regional Tim. 1 save and you would have been undefeated without Ozzel.

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:28 pm 
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High 30's

36 Either Jaq or Sid. I'm going to have to give it to Jaq because he was made to be absolutely fantastic. Sid took a long time to shine, but his time in the spotlight is fading.

37 Grand Admiral Thrawn, Aurra Sing or the Series II Destroyer? Cassus Fett is pretty great too. Have to give it to old GAT, because he still wins plenty of games.

38 Definitely not Merumeru. Kol Skywalker is a very close second to The Huntress. Honorable mention to Boba Fett, Enforcer.

39 HK-47 Assassin Droid. Nothing else is even close.

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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:38 am 
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urbanjedi wrote:
you won plenty of games without him yesterday at the regional Tim. 1 save and you would have been undefeated without Ozzel.


I didn't say you couldn't win without him - I said Ozzel is a better overall 11 pt piece than a Naboo Pilot, but it is close.


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 Post subject: Re: Best piece for its cost
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:32 am 
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21 - Yularen, Veers, Dutch, the T-series, and The Dark Woman are all strong contenders here. I think I'd give the nod to Admiral Yularen, but there can be an argument made for any of those.

22 - R2-D2 and C-3P0, Galactic Heroes, pretty much no contest in my opinion.

23 - Another really tough one. Anakin Solo, Captain Panaka, Foul Moudama, General Wedge Antilles, Jarael, and the Mandalorian Captain all show up here, and are all staples in different squads. I think Captain Panaka is the strongest of these, though.

24 - Much worse than 23. Qui-Gon Jedi Trainer is nice, Roron Corobb is a fun piece, and the Zann Consortium Defiler is pretty strong all-around. I think the Zann Consortium Defiler gets my vote for the best here. It's a pretty tough choice, but not because the pieces here are good, they're just all equally mediocre.

25 - Atin, Fi, and Darman are all here, along with Leia Jedi Knight and Han STA. Darman is a personal favorite of mine, but I think Han Solo in Stormtrooper Armor is probably the best one here.

26 - The Jedi Weapons Master is the go-to piece at this cost for a reason, despite not being seen competitively for a while. The Covenant Hand, Mando Quartermaster, and Republic Commando Niner get honorable mentions.

27 - Man, the 20s are really tough! Here we've got Ferus Olin, Demagol, Darth Bandon, and Luke Skywalker Rebel Commando. Oh wait, Lobot is in here, too. Obviously it's Lobot. Those other dudes are all good too, though.

28 - Until just recently this would be an uncontested win for Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler, but General Weir is there now too. I think that being so flexible gives Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler the edge, though.

29 - Pretty easily Ganner Rhysode. Carth Onasi, Old Republic Soldier and Winter get honorable mentions.

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