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 Post subject: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:34 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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I'd like to throw this topic out for discussion. I think a seperatist swap CE for living seperatist allies only would be huge for making new competitive seperatist squads, rather than the overused lancer/IG squads everyone has been playing for the last few years. I don't know about everyone else, but I am tired of seeing Lancer/IG squads every time I play seperatist squads. It's like there is no other competitive options out there. That being said, I wouldn't mind a swap squad for Seperatist living allies (not non-seperatists!), making the CE more limited, but also bringing back into play the Seperatist Commandos for stealth swap peices instead of Gran raiders and all the countless other non used living seperatists. If you want to swap in Durge JH, be my guest. You just need a large seperatist peice to do it. Guess who fits that bill? Geonosian Picador on Orray, a piece that is hardly ever used. A swap CE would also bring back to life Aurra Sing,JH for the chance to use twin lightsaber JH. Looking at all the living seperatist peices, I see lots of new competitve options that swap could bring. What does everyone else think?

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Last edited by obikenobi1 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:25 pm 
Death Star Designers
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I say no.

Swap was being handed out like candy for a while with most factions getting it. Seps have an Incredible engine that living seps could run on. Poggle + Drones + San Hill is very strong. You get cheap fodder (29 Points gets you 11 acts) San Hill lets you outact and then you can do your thing. Living Seps with Swap is just too good of a possibility as you cant outact them and all of their fodder blows up 75% of the time.

That being said they do need something to at least encourage the Living side of the faction to be played. Asajj Assassin is one of the best melee pieces in the game. And Durge, Aurra, and Dooku are all very good pieces in their own right. I don't think living seps will ever be better then the droids. (You can thank IG-86 for that) but they do need some tricks to be played. I do think the faction functions best with a living Sep piece (Asajj, Sid, Dooku, Durge, or Grievous) mixed in with droid shooting. Those 2 things with Poggle bombs and San make the faction really really good.

Maybe your opinion will change when you see whats coming with set 3............

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:57 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Maybe a new San Hill with Swap?


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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:03 pm 
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Well, I don't see to much difference between Poggle + San + swap CE person+ a lot of weak geonosians vs. Mithrawn, Ozzel and a ton of Rodian Brutes. Brutes cost 1 more and can attack at +8 for 20 dmg. Geonosians just die quick and maybe come back to life. I don't know if the design of Poggle was intentional to give the Seps another super cheap San fodder. I agree with Mandal Mauler that a new San Hill with the swap CE would negate most of the problems that arise with Poggle/Gha Nacht. I just think the Seps need a boost for the living allies. Whorm was a step in the right direction, however that just equated to mostly more droid squads with Lancers/IG-86's. Whorm is better for droids than he is for non-droids mostly because of Gha Nacht and BDO. And maybe after the full set of V-Set 3 is released I will hide myself in a corner and mutter "ignorance is bliss" to myself. :P

I love playing the living seps and I hope they get the support then need soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:23 pm 
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I say no way to sep swaps. We don't need every faction having every trick. Plus

Battle of Theed Maul is a beast. Having him Swap in Seps would be huge (esp if it was cheap). The Revan/MAul Swap combo is very tough and that is with the swapper cost 62 points (the two of them are well over half your squad). I would hate to see a cheap sep swap that could have Maul and another beat or 2 (ie assajj or Aurra JH)

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:20 am 
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I say No. I'd prefer to see a Tyrannus granting Greater Mobile Attack (and maybe Double Attack) - as this wouldn't really boost the Exploding Drones much, offers a marginal boost to BOT Maul (thanks to him already having Ambush), but would greatly help the likes of Durge, Asajj, Grievous, and even the Seperatist Commandos. Plus it's great to illustrate how Dooku was constantly moving his forces around.

*sidenote: Durge, JH has a medium base not large.


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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:43 am 
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urbanjedi wrote:
I say no way to sep swaps. We don't need every faction having every trick. Plus

Battle of Theed Maul is a beast. Having him Swap in Seps would be huge (esp if it was cheap). The Revan/MAul Swap combo is very tough and that is with the swapper cost 62 points (the two of them are well over half your squad). I would hate to see a cheap sep swap that could have Maul and another beat or 2 (ie assajj or Aurra JH)


Well, I wouldn't suggest a cheap mini with a swap CE, as it obviously would have problems with Poggle and billions of drones. Something around the 45-55pt range that can actually attack (sorta like Palps for the Sith who never gets played). I honestly don't see BOT Maul being played as much with the seps as it was originally intended as you see BOT Maul in sith squads with the Revan/Maul kill anything combo. Revans Ce is a whole different beast and Revan is a really good peice in his own right who can kill things easily plus he is a major movement breaker for the sith in addition to the swap. I don't think a sep peice with swap would compare to the Revan/Maul swap combo. The damage just isn't there and the movement isn't either to set it up. You'd have to have someone like Captain Mar Tuuk to have the swap and attack combo for the seps which would be hard to pull off.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:50 pm 
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obikenobi1 wrote:
Well, I don't see to much difference between Poggle + San + swap CE person+ a lot of weak geonosians vs. Mithrawn, Ozzel and a ton of Rodian Brutes. Brutes cost 1 more and can attack at +8 for 20 dmg. Geonosians just die quick and maybe come back to life. I don't know if the design of Poggle was intentional to give the Seps another super cheap San fodder. I agree with Mandal Mauler that a new San Hill with the swap CE would negate most of the problems that arise with Poggle/Gha Nacht. I just think the Seps need a boost for the living allies. Whorm was a step in the right direction, however that just equated to mostly more droid squads with Lancers/IG-86's. Whorm is better for droids than he is for non-droids mostly because of Gha Nacht and BDO. And maybe after the full set of V-Set 3 is released I will hide myself in a corner and mutter "ignorance is bliss" to myself. :P

I love playing the living seps and I hope they get the support then need soon.


That 1 point is HUGE when you are talking about 2 vs 3 pts. And when you start talking about Reinforcements, it's even more powerful. It's just a bad idea when Seps can get 10-20 figs for free activation fodder. And with Swap, Nute Guneray isn't a huge hinderance. The more I think about it, the more it just becomes a bad idea, if unoriginal. While it wouldn't play the same as the other factions, that doesn't mean you should just give a faction swap.

I do agree that Living Seps need a boost. There are better ways. Better CE's just for Living characters and better living support figs (quarrens, trandoshans, Death Watch) are the ways to go. And the CE's can be much more creative than just copying CEs.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:42 am 
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yeah i have to agree i think swap could potentially break the living seps. For a boost though i think that they could use getting a new Sidious, Maybe with force dominate to help with the situation along with pawn. Or even something like Garms commander effect would be interesting in the faction and quite helpful without Really breaking them. another good option would be something on a sidious or Tyranus like CE: once per round after initiative is determined one ally make take an immediate turn. Not only would it give then a movemnt breaker of sorts but it would also allowed for pieces like durge and maul to be played more. Put it on a 30-40 point peice and you could still fit in enough to be competitive

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:54 am 
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The biggest problem with a Seperatist movement breaker is always going to be Maul COTS - too cheap and he's making 8 attacks with Whorm, so it has to be on a fairly expensive piece (50+ pts that is still worth the cost) where adding whorm to the mix really isn't worth it (spending an extra 13 points on Sora or 23 on Asajj, SA would be a better use of the points). I don't think swap is the way to go, but I do think they should get something be it GMA, Ambush, Backlash, or 1 ally move up to their speed.

I'm all for a new Tyrannus with "Seperatist Allies gain Double Attack and Greater Mobile Attack"


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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:10 am 
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While I agree that the problem with living seps exists, I don't think that swap is the answer, keep the faction flavours. Maybe some sort of surprise move/intuition type CE to help get people in and out. But not straight swap, It's already heavy in four factons where it is almost a necessity to play it, we don't need any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:09 pm 
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i have to say this, i dont think they should get a traditional swap. IF they get something similar to revan swap i dont think that would break them as much, hoever i still dont think that that is the answer either. Greater Mobile for living would be a bad idea to me too, but mobile and/or ambush/backlash would be intgeresting and could bring some older pieces back to pl;ay , and even make living seps possibly competitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Yes, as long as its after all the other factions have it.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:32 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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sith darth sidious is what they need. 57 point swapper. makes sense, and the guy already exsists. holo sid would be a great help too.


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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:51 pm 
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I have put a bit of thought into the swap CE being given to the seperatists, but since so many other factions have that, I think maybe a varriant should be used. For example, maybe a Inuition-like CE such as:

After initiative has been determined, one follower may move up to its speed. This does not count as an activation.

That way you break the movement barrier but in a limited fashion. Or maybe a CE similar to Lord Hoths from the OR may be useful also. I really do hope the Seps get a movement breaker of some kind, since the living seperatists would become competitive and we'd see squads that aren't just lancers or IG-86's.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Are we really still talking about this?

I really don't see the need for any other factions to get a carbon copy of the original swap CE. I'm all for more movement breaking mechanics in every faction but I would hope that a little creativity could be applied. Thus far that is what we've seen with the Vsets, Revan's self swap, Thon's mount, Yam's swiped swap, I would expect more of the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:03 pm 
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obikenobi1 wrote:
I have put a bit of thought into the swap CE being given to the seperatists, but since so many other factions have that, I think maybe a varriant should be used. For example, maybe a Inuition-like CE such as:

After initiative has been determined, one follower may move up to its speed. This does not count as an activation.

That way you break the movement barrier but in a limited fashion. Or maybe a CE similar to Lord Hoths from the OR may be useful also. I really do hope the Seps get a movement breaker of some kind, since the living seperatists would become competitive and we'd see squads that aren't just lancers or IG-86's.


Assuming you mean movement breakers for Living Seps, because the Droids have plenty. The Lancer itself is a movement breaker. Now you toss in the Tactical Droid, which is brutal with things like the Assassin Droids and the Destroyers. And then there is Pawn of the Darkside, a very, very potent source of movement that Seps have 2 sources of, it is the best movment breaker they have.

And really, the Seps can't get a major movement breaker like swap or Revan. Their beatsicks are too powerful, especially thanks to Whorm. All that offense has to come at a price.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
obikenobi1 wrote:
I have put a bit of thought into the swap CE being given to the seperatists, but since so many other factions have that, I think maybe a varriant should be used. For example, maybe a Inuition-like CE such as:

After initiative has been determined, one follower may move up to its speed. This does not count as an activation.

That way you break the movement barrier but in a limited fashion. Or maybe a CE similar to Lord Hoths from the OR may be useful also. I really do hope the Seps get a movement breaker of some kind, since the living seperatists would become competitive and we'd see squads that aren't just lancers or IG-86's.


Assuming you mean movement breakers for Living Seps, because the Droids have plenty. The Lancer itself is a movement breaker. Now you toss in the Tactical Droid, which is brutal with things like the Assassin Droids and the Destroyers. And then there is Pawn of the Darkside, a very, very potent source of movement that Seps have 2 sources of, it is the best movment breaker they have.

And really, the Seps can't get a major movement breaker like swap or Revan. Their beatsicks are too powerful, especially thanks to Whorm. All that offense has to come at a price.

Actually the best thing you could do with one is to give it to a new whorm loathsome. Granted i am not sure we need a new whorm but it would solve the issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Should the seperatists get a swap CE?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:40 pm 
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I meant movement breakers in my earlier post. I realize the Pawn of the Darkside is powerful, but its only powerful for droids. The seps have yet to find a really good living non-unique option for that force power. The point I'm trying to make is that when it comes to competitve play, seperatist players mostly (if not always) play droid squads. I understand how people would think that giving peices like Maul, CotF twin and movement breaker would be overpowered, but when you think of it, the last sets have been making a lot of peices overpowered and its not uncommon to have peices dishing out 30 dmg hits. I think a new commander within the 50-55pt range with the movement breaker as a CE for at least the unique living seperatists wouldn't be overpowered. Its a lot of points to get all of that into a squad.

Look at General Weir for example. Put Tarkin in the squad for a mere 22 points and you have a Commander with stealth and double twin for 30 dmg a hit and a SA that basically boosts his defense by +4 when encountering melee peices. Not only that he makes all your storm commandos double twin 30 dmg hiters also. Seriously, thats a lot of damage output. You can easily give gma attack to everyone with stealth with the BBSV and TBSV.

The living seperatists need help and a movement breaker would be the key. I hope the designers stop showing the droids all the love and focus on making the living seperatists more competitive. I am tired of seeing the same seperatists squads over and over and over again. Did we really need another movement breaker for the droids in the last set? No. They had enough already. If the tactical droid could have worked on living seperatist also that would be great, but no, thats not what we got. Somehow people thought the droids needed even more help to move around and do godly amounts of damage.

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