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I will make one observation... to everyone who thinks the Imperials didn't get much in this set... consider this.

Darth IC
Fel Officer
Many stormies

Something about a 5 point piece with a defense of 26 that just makes me want to throw up... and don't even bring up what Thrawn does to that...

I do agree that some of the previous pieces got even better (Yoda, Palp)... but I don't agree that we've seen some major resurrection of old stuff. By and large, the things we saw a TON of use of will get even more use. For example, they pumped up uggies... well, you already saw them in every squad. Palp and Yoda boosted... great, they were viable anyway. Show me how any of the old Republic Jedi became viable again (which didn't happen) or how a fringe shooter who was "so so" became useful, and you'll have my attention... but I've yet to see it at all. Kota can improve fringe shooters, but that happened anyway all the time with Thrawn... so the same fringe shooters will appear...

Still, the set isn't "game breaking" by any stretch... and it will revitalize SWM (hopefully... my LGSs haven't embraced it yet). And I'm having fun trying to figure out how the hell I'll store all THESE figs now

And by the by, I just can't resist a tiny jab... pre-release, everyone was preaching about how none of these uber force powers would ever be used, because it took 3 turns to charge one up. Now, you just took a pair of Repulse 5 hits

I think Ozzel and the Empire for that matter deserves more credit than you are giving them. Who cares about the rebels awsome new beats. As long as they arnt using repulse/push/etc they wont be able to HIT stormies/heavy stormies/DT's/etc. I think the Empire got some big boosts with the FSO and Ozzel. However, that's only my opinion

well i for one faced vader unleashed at mine and my opponent was charging up for the light saber throw.... i used motf with shaak ti and loda to get him based.... i then sliced him down to 10 hp before he could the throw off....

I can't complain... the three boosters I won as first place gave me Revan, Rancor, and Chewie

I really agree with everything you say and totally agree on the Troop cart - I really love the Troop Cart myself and can't wait until I can use it.

Author:	adder [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:38 pm ]
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I really like Garm's effect, Loda is beastly and both of the Apprentices appear to be really easy top pull (two people got both of them in one release tourney!)

Author:	LoboStele [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:51 pm ]
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Grambo wrote: I will make one observation... to everyone who thinks the Imperials didn't get much in this set... consider this. Darth IC Fel Officer Many stormies Something about a 5 point piece with a defense of 26 that just makes me want to throw up... and don't even bring up what Thrawn does to that... Well, first of all, not to make it seem worse, but Stormies actually become a 30 Defense in cover with the combo you listed above. However, there are 14 pieces in this set that do damage either automatically, or without needing to actually hit an attack (like Splash or Grenades) that can kill those Stormies just fine. In my mind, the 23 defense Stormies we used to have were hard enough to beat, so another 7 Defense makes little difference, when I was trying to kill Stormies with non-attacking abilities before anyways. Again...I know this has been discussed many times before, but if you try to build even a 200 point squad around 30 Defense Stormies, you'll have a hard time being consistently competitive. Grambo wrote: I do agree that some of the previous pieces got even better (Yoda, Palp)... but I don't agree that we've seen some major resurrection of old stuff. By and large, the things we saw a TON of use of will get even more use. For example, they pumped up uggies... well, you already saw them in every squad. Palp and Yoda boosted... great, they were viable anyway. Show me how any of the old Republic Jedi became viable again (which didn't happen) or how a fringe shooter who was "so so" became useful, and you'll have my attention... but I've yet to see it at all. Kota can improve fringe shooters, but that happened anyway all the time with Thrawn... so the same fringe shooters will appear... Eh...I don't know about that. Revan's CE is incredible for a WIDE range of pieces, and the Sith Assault Droids in particular. Sure, Kota tends to make the already good pieces better, but he could also help a lot of other things. Think about an Ithorian Commander/Han Stormtrooper swarm with Kota and some of the odd Fringe pieces that work there like Ayy Vida and Bib Fortuna. Bib becomes a piece capable of 50 damage, with a 15 Defense, 15 Attack, and at only 8 points! I honestly am not sure if we've even scratched the surface yet with what may be the best combos for Kota and Revan. Grambo wrote: Still, the set isn't "game breaking" by any stretch... and it will revitalize SWM (hopefully... my LGSs haven't embraced it yet). And I'm having fun trying to figure out how the hell I'll store all THESE figs now Hahahaha, definitely have to agree with you there. I had to completely rearrange a bunch of my stuff. And there is no flipping way I'll be able to bring all those huges with me from week to week at my LGS.

Author:	hothie [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:58 pm ]
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Well, Luke and Yoda was the unbeatable piece in our release tourney. FR3 is just sick, cause he never runs out of FPs. Crit? Reflect. Crit within 6? Alter. And with MotF3, he's just unbeatable. I pulled a Hoth han (without Accurate!!!!!!! ARGHHHH) and 2-1B, and still managed to get 4th out of 10, largely due to my Golan Turret getting some serious gambit points each game, easily as much or more than he was worth nearly every time. I lost to a Luke/Yoda and PROXY combo that was just sick, and Kota with 2 Junk Golems that made nearly all of their shield saves. I could have played that one better, but was still discombobulated from playing Luke/Yoda the game before. I do like the boost the rebels got. Side bar your honor: played a fun game Saturday. I used Han on Tauntaun, K3PO, Repeating Blaster, Rebel Officer, Rebel Captian, and Hoth trooper Officer, with other scrubs. I ran Hantaun out, ran the Commanders near him, used K3PO to swap him with the repeating Blaster, and shot 6 times (with twin), at +10 attack for 30 damage each time. I took his Exar Kun down to 40 hp before his first activation of the 2nd round (had 1 crit in 12 attacks). He was not expecting that, but it was beautiful to pull off. I do hope to make some fun squads and combos with this set. Next squad is a Rebel/Kasdan Droid army. Should be fun...

Author:	NickName [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:32 pm ]
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Quote: And by the by, I just can't resist a tiny jab... pre-release, everyone was preaching about how none of these uber force powers would ever be used, because it took 3 turns to charge one up. Now, you just took a pair of Repulse 5 hits Happened at my tourney too. I took a Grip, then a Throw from Vader. And there many several other cases. But sealed squads are not nearly as good at dishing out damage as constructed so I think there's still time for the original assertions to be accurate.

Author:	Roque Saber [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:09 pm ]
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I think Ozzel and the Empire for that matter deserves more credit than you are giving them. Who cares about the rebels awsome new beats. As long as they arnt using repulse/push/etc they wont be able to HIT stormies/heavy stormies/DT's/etc. I think the Empire got some big boosts with the FSO and Ozzel. However, that's only my opinion

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Author:	Aeimnestus [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:00 pm ]
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Roque Saber wrote: I think Ozzel and the Empire for that matter deserves more credit than you are giving them. Who cares about the rebels awsome new beats. As long as they arnt using repulse/push/etc they wont be able to HIT stormies/heavy stormies/DT's/etc. I think the Empire got some big boosts with the FSO and Ozzel. However, that's only my opinion Are you kidding me? Ozzel is a retread, the FSO is...different. Besides, to take full advantage of all these Imperial defense boosters, you're going to need a map like Korriban...ugh. Even then, all this Rebel disruptive is going to kill the FSO. Like dnemiller said, the Imperials came in a weak second. I'm an Imperial fan, too, and I don't want to sound like a whiner, but I suppose it's fair that the Imperials didn't get too much, and the Rebels got a -debatable- boost.

Author:	Sithborg [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:14 pm ]
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The more important thing is, to make use of all those CE's, you have to spend 100+ pts. I think there are some decent options for Stormies right now, but not the crazy stuff people are talking about.

Author:	Aeimnestus [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:28 pm ]
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Supposedly, though, the Raxus Prime Trooper outclasses the RS Stormtrooper.

Author:	Grambo [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:36 pm ]
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dnemiller wrote: well i for one faced vader unleashed at mine and my opponent was charging up for the light saber throw.... i used motf with shaak ti and loda to get him based.... i then sliced him down to 10 hp before he could the throw off.... Yes, but you're a SWM God, so you don't count In my tourney I got hit by Grip AND Throw (but then I had no real power in my pieces... my two boosters had an Ozzel (with very few imps behind him) and a Leia. I played the tourney based around my Tie Crawler and my Telosian Tank... and won because of my Camaasi Noble (he held a doorway for one turn, and saved my arse).

Author:	punxnbutter [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:50 pm ]
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Nice swappin; I can't believe you didn't have to wait till round 3 to squeeze off that many shots!!

Author:	Grambo [ Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:16 pm ]
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I can't complain... the three boosters I won as first place gave me Revan, Rancor, and Chewie

Author:	thejumpingflea [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:23 am ]
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Grambo wrote: I can't complain... the three boosters I won as first place gave me Revan, Rancor, and Chewie I got 4th and got me a Rancor. Not bad if you ask me

Author:	LoboStele [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:26 am ]
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Roque Saber wrote: I think Ozzel and the Empire for that matter deserves more credit than you are giving them. Who cares about the rebels awsome new beats. As long as they arnt using repulse/push/etc they wont be able to HIT stormies/heavy stormies/DT's/etc. I think the Empire got some big boosts with the FSO and Ozzel. However, that's only my opinion Sure, Ozzel and the new Stormie options are good, but the Stormies high defense is practically worthless against all of the new Rebel beat sticks. None of the new Rebel melee pieces will have that much trouble hitting a 22 defense, and the Stormies won't be getting that +8 cover bonus, because the opponents will be adjacent. On top of that, things like the Vanguard and Push/Repulse will just wreck stormie squads. The stormies might have crazy high defenses, but good luck getting the Stormies to hit a 27 Defense in cover Master Kota. Or good luck getting them to hit Luke & Yoda period. Plus, every time they shoot at Loda, there's a 50% chance they'll die because of the Reflect!

Author:	Sithborg [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:34 pm ]
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I love Kota's Repulse 5. If you get it off, it can be game changing. Kota was the reason I won so handidly in my final matchup. Repulse 5 devastated his swarm and he had issues hitting my 23 Def Kota and 22 Def Fett.

Author:	Eldacar [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:01 pm ]
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I finally joined this forum. Reading this discussion I realize how important Astromech still is. The troop cart is another transporter with even more range. You can now bring in a fully charged Master Kota in the midst of your enemies and pull of a big repulse. Or you introduce the repeating blaster to your enemies from far away. The empire lacks transportation. I feel sorry for the Apprentice Unleashed with his restricting 6 squares. The poor youngster needs an extra +3 def to be able to last during his long march to the right position as the enemies come flying or dragged by the tow-trash can.

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Author:	Grambo [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:31 pm ]
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I don't disagree with the rebels now being 1st... just feel the Empire didn't get totally shafted, as some seem to think. Yes, the super-troopers are beatable... yes, they aren't even "meta" (nor frankly do I think they ever were)... but they have some solid pieces still.

Author:	LoboStele [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:51 pm ]
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Oh absolutely. I never thought the Empire got shafted at all. They definitely got some neat new stuff. Even though the new Vader and Apprentice Unleashed may not be the absolute best, I think as time goes on, we'll find more and more ways to use them effectively. I've already discovered a couple myself. And Eldacar, great point about comparing the Troop Cart to R2 Astromech. While it's a slightly different scenario, there are some really close similarities, especially since Melee beatsticks riding on the cart can still attack adjacent characters without having to disembark. With 50 HP and 18 Defense, the Cart won't die nearly as quick as R2 does in some situations.

Author:	Sithborg [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:01 pm ]
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Ozzel definately adds some new tricks. Him, Piett, and Evo Troopers could be interesting.

Author:	Eldacar [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:20 pm ]
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Another great thing with the troop cart is that it now only has to make a save of 6 if the thing gets blown up, compared to the 11 on the skiff. Luke of Yavin can ride safely and let a heavy trooper ride along for fun. Or Bossk BH for flaming away high-defense stormies. There are a few splashcharacters that counter all the cart-riding, but if they get shot by the mass-shooters that travel so fast...

Author:	adder [ Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:22 pm ]
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Fool wrote: I really agree with everything you say and totally agree on the Troop cart - I really love the Troop Cart myself and can't wait until I can use it. I've made a decent squad with it. It involves Luke, HPU and Obi-Wan, U on a Troop Cart. You say you don't like Push? Too bad. I'm pretty sure by turn 3 I can Push anything on the map.