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 Post subject: Discussion of the Sith Alchemy Force Power…
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:29 am 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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Sithborg wrote:
A character brought in by Sith Alchemy does not cost points. This will be in the full glossary defination.


adidamps2 wrote:
Then I am of the opinion (like that’s a news flash I’m sure) that this force powers really needs to be looked at again…and should have a save mechanic added to it…even if it’s as absurd as a save of 16…

I’m not saying the damage shouldn’t be automatic but the ability to add the Sith Alchemy creature should have the save…

I just can’t see giving my opponent a free piece after killing my piece and then earning nothing for that piece when I kill it…especially with something like a Rakghoul who can then turn around and make more creatures of its self as it kills my pieces.

Because there are a plethora of characters (468 matter fact, although I’m sure some of those are repeats when I did the search) who have 20 or less hit points and a good number of characters who, after taking 10-20 points of damage, find them self in this 20 hit point area also…

The loss of the character to this force ability is not the issue again…I can deal with losing a piece with no save…but my opponent getting a free piece afterwards that I earn nothing for needs to be reconsidered…either by adding the save mechanic or allowing one to earn points for those pieces.


countrydude82487 wrote:
wauit on a similar situation do you gain points for a Rakghoul brought in by Rakghoul disease?


Sithborg wrote:
countrydude82487 wrote:
wauit on a similar situation do you gain points for a Rakghoul brought in by Rakghoul disease?


No. This is covered in the glossary defination of Rakghoul Disease.

And Sith Alchemy works the way it does in order to keep it inline with Rakghoul Disease. On a practical level, they didn't want to keep track of who costs points and who doesn't, since the Raks can get a bit crazy.


adidamps2 wrote:
there is a difference between SithAlc and a Rak actually killing a piece off...one being a Rak has to be adjacent and has to have physically attacked the piece (if you want you can equate that to a save mechanic in itself, because it has to hit the target)...Sith Alc is ranged attack and automatically kills your piece and GIVES you opponent a free attacking piece...no rolls necessary. No attack roll, no save mechanic, no special initiative number to roll (I mention this because Reinforcements calls for a special initiative number; oh and they count for points when defeated), just a free piece for spending 1-2 force points...

again I want to be clear, the automatic damage is NOT my concern...it is the AUTOMATIC free piece for my opponent that I earn no points for. There are at least 3 way to "fix" the issue (that I can think of)

1: a save mechanic for bringing in a Sith Alc Creature (11 or a 16 even)
2: Points for defeating the creature
3: defeating the piece that bring in the Sith Alc also defeats the creatures brought in (sort of like force spirits)


Also what this power does is set the precedence that any future Sith Alchemy X Force Powers will also follow suit with no points for the character they would bring in. Although the only creature I can think of off the top of my head is a Rak that can create more of itself as it defeats your pieces…which is the creature this ruling for Sith Alchemy is based on…


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Sith Alchemy Force Power…
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:50 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Let me get this straight:

Rakghoul Disease (replace dead opponent with a free ally) is a good ability because you roll a die from an adjacent square.

Force grip/push/explode is a good ability because you inflict damage with force points and not a die and you are not adjacent.

But Sith Alchemy (force points, non-adjacent, replace dead opponent with free ally) is not a good ability because there is no die.

I do not follow the logic in this sequence.

If you have many low HP figures, you must place a high HP figure in front to force the Sith Alchemy character to follow targeting rules and affect the high HP figure.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Sith Alchemy Force Power…
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:01 pm 
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MandalMauler wrote:
Let me get this straight:

Rakghoul Disease (replace dead opponent with a free ally) is a good ability because you roll a die from an adjacent square.

Force grip/push/explode is a good ability because you inflict damage with force points and not a die and you are not adjacent.

But Sith Alchemy (force points, non-adjacent, replace dead opponent with free ally) is not a good ability because there is no die.

I do not follow the logic in this sequence.

If you have many low HP figures, you must place a high HP figure in front to force the Sith Alchemy character to follow targeting rules and affect the high HP figure.


Yep. pretty much.



What are you arguing here?

Just curious, where are you from btw?

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Sith Alchemy Force Power…
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:35 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
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my arguement/discussion/point is clear...

and yes...I am saying that a free character from a force power with no roll involved is IMO unbalanced in this game...

where I'm from is of no concern in this discussion, and adds nothing to what I am trying to discuss here.

and I listed several examples and points to address this.

and lets be honest, through a higher hit point character out from to protect your uggie who just blew a door, will do nothing more than get that piece picked apart to the point that they can use Sith Alc on that character instead...so instread of losing a 3 pt figure...you lose a 17+ point figure.

and lets look at this power. it is designed to DEFEAT a character and then give you character in it's place from a distance of 6 squares. Auto damage is not an issue withe the limititation of a 20 hp or less left on a character...but the addition of a free character is, that the opposing player can earn nothing for for defeating...

and what of "possible" newer versions of this power that bring in something other than a Rak? Would those creatures be worth no points either?

I don't feel like this power was fully looked at and addressed for this game...especially with possiblity of other versions of this power to be used...if it already in place that charaters brought in through Sith Alc will earn your opponent no points.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Sith Alchemy Force Power…
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:46 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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Adidamps2 wrote:

and what of "possible" newer versions of this power that bring in something other than a Rak? Would those creatures be worth no points either?
Yes, we use precedent when determining how the rules will interact. Just as we used a precedent to determine the scoring method for tournaments only for SA2.

Adidamps2 wrote:
I don't feel like this power was fully looked at and addressed for this game...especially with possiblity of other versions of this power to be used...if it already in place that charaters brought in through Sith Alc will earn your opponent no points.
Well, you would 100% wrong. We looked at this extensively actually. It works exactly as it's intended and I already told you many of the reasons for it on bloomilk. I assume you will respect what I have said and not claim "we didn't look at it" again. Doing so once, is fine, being told that isn't true should answer your concern. Doing so a second time after being told you were wrong, starts to look like an insult. Doing it a third time is either insulting or trolling, either one of which is not helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Sith Alchemy Force Power…
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:05 am 
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Bottom line is that wizards set the precedent with Rakghoul disease.

I agree that it is counterintuitive and not the smartest move on Wizards' part.

But since that was already the precedent, then it only makes sense to follow it. It would cause much more confusion to change it here


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Sith Alchemy Force Power…
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:22 am 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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billiv15 wrote:
Yes, we use precedent when determining how the rules will interact. Just as we used a precedent to determine the scoring method for tournaments only for SA2.

One thing nice about bringing in different creatures on different tiers is that-unless we create a new one that does it-no other creature in the game has a mechanic like Rakghoul Disease. So if, say, we brought in a Mynock or a Dejarik for Sith Alchemy 1, it can't create a new piece of itself like the Rakghoul can. So the Rakghoul is the anomaly in all of this.

And if we ever create a Deathtrooper (or whatever those Zombie Stormtroopers were), I would expect it to have an ability similar to Rakghoul Disease that would create new Zombies out of the dead. No save, just *poof* you're a zombie and on my team.


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