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 Post subject: Epics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:28 pm 
Master of the Order
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Anyone playing with these? Thoughts/reactions?

Feel free to share. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:18 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Seems to me if you draw tzulkang lah you win. I say that having not played with them yet. Tzulkang did go 4-0 in the sith trials I watched though.

Aside from that I'm having fun building teams for epic format with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:04 pm 
Master of the Order
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Epics are interesting beasts. I can't possibly imagine the task of having 12 designers make an uber fig and trying to balance them. It's pretty much impossible.

Also - Dynamic Duos is usually a crapshoot, coming down to one or two key inits. So Epic Duos just compounds this.

AND, you draw a figure at random, so it's a TOTAL crapshoot

That being said, I played on Friday knowing it was just gonna be a bunch of dice rolling and silly fun. Didn't have to think too much, just run in and hack away.

I drew The Phantom Menace, who was "eh" as far as the rest of the Epics. It sucked losing one of your best abilities due to the format (losing tactician hurts), but I still made a go of it. I paired him with Vader scourge, and that was the right choice for 90% of the matchups, more on that later.

I went 2-2
The games I won, I announced at some point, "Whoever wins this initiative will win the game". And I was right. One of the two games I lost - same story. The other game I lost was Trevor running the Vong. YIKES! Talk about the worst possible matchup. I honestly think it might be THE worst matchup of ANY of the epics - Phantom Menace vs the Lahs. I might have done slightly better with Cad Bane (meaning not lost by quite so much), but you can't choose your second fig based on only this match-up. It didn't help having one of the best players around at the helm of the Vong duo. Trevor and I chuckled while discussing what would have had to have happened for me to win. It would have been ASTRONOMICAL odds. I couldn't stop any of his damage while they nerfed my best stuff and hit me back too.

So is Lah beatable? Sure . . . but not often. Certainly never by The Phantom Menace. It will take Bane or the Terrantatek - or Luke or Mace going crit crazy. AND they would need some key inits too. That's about it.


So all in all it was fun, but silly, you-can't-care-about-the-outcome sorta fun.

I would be curious to see an Epic (non-duo) game where each squad gets one on their side. Now THAT might be fun and take some skill too.


I wouldn't mind having an Epic Duo tourney next year, but only 1, and not a part of the Sith Trials


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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:15 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:

So is Lah beatable? Sure . . . but not often. Certainly never by The Phantom Menace. It will take Bane or the Terrantatek - or Luke or Mace going crit crazy. AND they would need some key inits too. That's about it.



Or....The Ganner :saber:

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:20 pm 
Master of the Order
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:

So is Lah beatable? Sure . . . but not often. Certainly never by The Phantom Menace. It will take Bane or the Terrantatek - or Luke or Mace going crit crazy. AND they would need some key inits too. That's about it.



Or....The Ganner :saber:


I've seen this mentioned before. So, is it time to start the spoiler thread for Epic II or what? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:13 pm 
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I'll be honest: I didn't really dig Epic Duos that much just because the element of luck seemed to trump everything else. I was glad I played it once just to get the experience, but if Epic Duos were offered at Gencon again next year, I would probably take that time to go play Dominion or eat a nice meal or something.

That said, I am really looking forward to trying them out in higher point activation-limited formats (500 pt, 16 activation, no Dodonna/San/etc sort of thing--Trevor was talking this up at Gencon). I'm interested to test that out, but I haven't had the chance yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:41 am 
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My guys in Hawera here (NZ) played a Royal Rumble (quite different to the US minis version, but almost identical to the WWF version) with all 12 of the EPIC characters and they said that it was complete carnage and uber awesome.

Kudos!

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:18 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Greetings Force users!
The guys at the Clubhouse in Lakewood, CA, love epic duos!!!!!!!!!!!! ( We banned the Vong from our games :)
We've had 2 Epic duos tourneys, and had such a blast playing, with fun and entertaining games. In tourney 1, I won with with Mara and Luke. In tourney 2, I played Mace and Cad and James played Mandalore and Jango. We both ended up undefeated, and ran out of time before we could play each other so we ended it in a tie for 1st place. All in all, we all had an awesome time!
The guys here wanted to hear some other community members comments regarding Mandalore. In our 2 tourneys, Mandalore Cortosis Weaved in pretty much every game. This was extremely frustrating for the guys that had their best characters nerfed, and put sour tastes in their mouths. In tourney 1, I was totally lucky to get through it. Naturally, he Cortosis Weaved Mara. Luckily her cunning did enough damage to still help ( thank god for winning iniative ) and his Cortosis save against Luke rolled from a 20 to a 2 and I pulled out the match ( Barely though ). Does anyone else feel that Cortosis Weave is a little too overpowered, being that most of the epics have lightsabers and that an auto save with all those lightsaber attacks, odds are, he's bound to Cortosis in every game? Thanks in advance for your feedback :) ( By all means, we totally love this new format and are not complaining )


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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:43 am 
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Why did you ban Vong?


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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:12 am 
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Mara is probably the most broken of the bunch of epics, imo, when played in Mass Battle. If she is paired up with John "Dutch" Vander, she can lightsaber assault twin for 200 dmg at +22 attack. And she pretty much always strikes first. There is nothing wrong with Madalore. He has the cortosis weave for a reason, otherwise people wouldn't play him, so he fits perfectly for the Mando's. I absolutely love the Vong epic! He is awesome in every sense of the word. I don't know why everyone says Bane in Obalisk armor is the best. I don't think you can sith Rage twice in a turn. That pretty much makes banes total damage output 100dmg. The Vong guy can rip Bane to shreds since for every attack Bane lands there is a 50/50 chance of a twin attack for 30 dmg a hit coming right back. Its about time the vong got a very powerful peice that also has a solid CE for the vong.

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:32 am 
Master of the Order
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I enjoyed reading the comments. The GenCon reports are interesting, but I was asking more in general terms if people are playing these cards, and what the experiences with them have been. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 am 
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Ive actually been testing them out at home by myself (to the general amusement of my wife). I plan on doing it round robin style, which is gonna take a long time, lol. I paired them all up with what I thought were appropriate partners and have been playing through. I started with Hoth playing against one team after another, and while Im not through with his yet, he has a winning record so far.

I think Hoth (with Boba BH) is 6-3 right now, with losses to Vader (w VAU), Mace (w Cad), and Maul ( w Sid DLotS). Still have the Mando and Vong for him to face though.

If you wonder how he beat some of those matches, I should point out Im playing all these on the hardboard, which isnt the most balanced of maps, so Boba is pretty useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:54 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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We banned the Vong @ our Clubhouse in Epic because they're too strong! 4-0 at GenCon, and undefeated, I'm sure, in countless other tourneys throughout the country. Has anyone lost playing the Vong in Epic?????????? If so, please explain how in the world that happened.



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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:20 pm 
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I lost a match playing Czulkang. Cad Bane shot him to bits. Besides, plenty of characters can take on Czulkang Lah and do well: Vader (depending on who his support is), Mara, Luke, Terentatek, and Mace can all take Czulkang down. I definitely think he's got a great chance to do well in any Epic Tournament, but he's not unbeatable.

I guess I just dislike when people ban things because they don't know how to deal with it. Figure out a way to beat something rather than banning it. You learn something when you try to figure out a difficult matchup, but learn nothing when you ban a piece.


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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:40 pm 
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I played with mando at gen con and it seems to me that every matchup is an uphill battle. You almost always need to roll the cortosis weave to win. I beat maul by rolling the cortosis weave and also beat mace due to cortosis weave and his bad rolls. I had I bye and I lost to the vong so hard it wasn't fun at all and that was when I was playing the mando as a shooter before I realized at the end of the match that he was melée. IMO I think vong is undercosted, mando is overcosted and lord hoth whom I played a little with at home is overcosted cause he kinda sucked didn't have a lot to offer with his only def coming from niman which goes away fast and defense. It would have helped a lot and made things interesting if he had force defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:27 pm 
Big Bad Brad
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sthlrd2 wrote:
I played with mando at gen con and it seems to me that every matchup is an uphill battle. You almost always need to roll the cortosis weave to win. I beat maul by rolling the cortosis weave and also beat mace due to cortosis weave and his bad rolls. I had I bye and I lost to the vong so hard it wasn't fun at all and that was when I was playing the mando as a shooter before I realized at the end of the match that he was melée. IMO I think vong is undercosted, mando is overcosted and lord hoth whom I played a little with at home is overcosted cause he kinda sucked didn't have a lot to offer with his only def coming from niman which goes away fast and defense. It would have helped a lot and made things interesting if he had force defense.



Had it not been for points (yes, I managed a 2 point win in Epic Duo) I placed 2nd with Mandalore

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:31 pm 
Master of the Order
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It's not that Mando is overcosted. It's that he is costed with his CE which doesn't really come into play in Epic.

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:15 pm 
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Unless you've run 1000 tournaments with the Epics, I am highly suspect of making conclusions about them. Almost every game comes down to a couple of lucky die rolls (and I don't just mean init). Sure, there are good and bad matchups, but my tournament in Epic at Gencon was a classic case in point. I was playing Vader/Vader's AppU against Boba Merc and Mace. Should be a win right? Wrong, lost 3 straight inits once we engaged, so it went like this - boba Merc uses Intuition to move out of base behind Mace, Mace goes first, quads on Vader, then moves away. Next I go with the Apprentice to try to zap Boba if I can, got him activated once. Other rounds, he simply responds by cunning double on Vader and moves away farther. 3 inits lost later, Vader is dead, and Mace and Boba are both below 1/2. Even in the best of matchups, luck plays a huge part of Epic Duos (and that is intentional to the format).

This idea that Lah is unbeatable is frankly stupid and a gross exaggeration. At least 4 of the other Epics have a greater than 50% chance of beating Lah assuming the best possible counter part for each matchup for each Epic. I'll let you all figure out who they are. And Lah did not go 4-0, he went 7-1 at Gencon between 2 tournaments. It also mattered who was playing the figures, and who they chose to pair with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:44 am 
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Well the dynamic duo will be fun I'm much more interested in an epic skirmish(one epic, 300 point teams and all that). It seems to fit more since so many of these characters are costed for their ces *cough* phantom menace *cough* and would really do a lot better in a skirmish setting albeit tweaked. I am curious if the designers have any special rules formats for such a skirmish? I have heard thoughts of activation limits, but I think 300 points seems more realistic? Anyways I enjoy the pieces and think they are a great fresh addition to the game, once I figure out how they fit into it haha.


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 Post subject: Re: Epics
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:10 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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I started my comments on a positive note in saying that our group loves the Epic Format and we had a blast playing it. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that our group thinks Czulkang is unbeatable. I meant to conveyCzulkang is a very difficult match-up. As far as our gaming group at our lgs banning him Epic, is that we have decided that Czulkang is a little bit too powerful for our tastes and will probably win a majority of the time. Hey maybe the guys in my group are wrong, but that's the beauty of house rules and it's just our humble opinions. Yes, I know, you can tailor make your team to beat him ( 7-1 is a pretty darm good record at GenCon though, I think most would agree :) ) At any rate, I completely respect everyone's opinion in the community, and appreciate positive and polite feedback. Thanks guys!


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