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 Post subject: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:42 pm 
Master of the Order
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Well, in the grand tradition of completing a virtual set, here I am again to reflect back on the project as I breathe a sigh of relief that it has been shipped to the printer, and now we can all just sit back and wait for the cards to get printed and distributed.

First of all, I want to say a very large and heart-felt thank you to everyone who supported R&R with your time, resources, and donations to help get these cards printed. Just as with Destiny of the Force, this was a labor of love for the community that has long played and supported this game, and the showing of financial support to just cover the cost of printing speaks louder about the confidence this community has in its lead design team, and that means a great deal to me.

While we learned many lessons from our work on Destiny of the Force, R&R was a much harder set to design than Destiny. For one thing, our design team make-up changed somewhat. Co-designers Eric Larson and Deri Morgan stepped aside due to more pressing real-life obligations, which was completely understandable, but both stayed on in advisory capacities. Replacing them on the team were Bill Russell, whom many of you already know and who oversaw playtesting on Destiny, and Eric Frost, who offered some great advice with Destiny and even saw at least one of his card designs make the final cut in that set. So, I was confident that working with both of them on this new set would be just as smooth as the first set, and that the ideas we would produce as a group would really build on the work I helped Deri and Eric L. create in Destiny. I wasn't wrong, either. I'm even prouder of the designs of R&R than I am of the Destiny set, and that is not to discredit Destiny at all, as I am indeed immensely proud of what that set accomplished and what it represents. To see an Old Republic squad not only make the top 4 cut but actually win a Regional is incredibly humbling.

As I said, R&R was not without its own set of challenges. For one thing, once you are a designer, it's in your blood, and Eric Larson quickly began working on a new idea for a sub-set of theme cards that led us to eventually pause our work on R&R when we realized the interactions with stat blocks being designed simultaneously could be problematic (read: abusive). The Battle of Theed set is, in my opinion, an amazing set for what it does and has elements that are going to really strengthen the game in ways that just weren't possible with the standard 60-card sets we were doing in R&R. Does that mean that every card is going to be game-changing? Of course not. But there are a number of very interesting ideas, and we worked right up until the last minute before deadline to make sure it was the very best it could possibly be. I would say that was true of both R&R and Battle of Theed. We learned a lot about the power and influence sub-sets can have on actual set work, and it was a good lesson, especially since I'm sure Battle of Theed won't be the last sub-set we design.

Additionally, as was announced recently, we also began developing a set of characters with a cost greater than 100 pts. I won't spoil any of the surprises, but I will tell you we worked - as a group - harder on balancing those than we did even on R&R, and we worked VERY VERY hard on that. We scrapped the Epic card sets no fewer than 3 times and started completely over, retaining the theme of the original work as much as possible while creating a "rock, scissors, paper" feel to it. No one piece dominates over every other. It took us about 5 drafts, but we finally got it where we wanted it, where it will be the most fun without just being a dice contest.

Of course, as many of you are aware, we had some personal challenges along the way, and I would even go so far as to call some of those challenges "setbacks." But we rose to the occasion, as did the entire community, and I am proud to say that despite the loss we have sustained, we are stronger and smarter for it, and we have made changes to the way of doing things that will prevent such a setback from ever being so potentially devastating ever again.

I hope everyone enjoys playing with the R&R, BoT, and Epic cards as much as I enjoyed helping design them. V-Set 3 is already in the works, but I am taking a break from this set. I have other things I need to focus on, and truthfully as much as I enjoyed working with Bill and Eric F. on this set, working on the V-Sets takes up more of my time than anything else I am doing right now. I plan to stay on as a playtester for V-Set 3, and am working with Les Eller and a few other people (whom I don't want to mention because they haven't fully committed) on V-set 4, which we hope to have done in summer 2012. Your design team for V-Set 3 will be Bill, Deri, Eric Larsen, and Daniel Stephens, who got his feet wet the same way Eric Frost did with Destiny. I think you will be pleasantly surprised with what the four of them are doing.

We also have some side project ideas in the works, nothing set in stone, just things we are discussing doing. Thanks again to everyone for their support of this community endeavor, and we hope you will continue to support what we are doing. Remember, this is still your game (more now than ever), and we can't do any of the things we are doing without you!

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:15 pm 
Intelligence Operative
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A good read, thanks for all your work on the three upcoming projects. It really shows in what has been revealed so far. Maintaining balance and variety without creating random broken combinations like WOTC did. Destiny was the best set yet since the game begun and I'm sure renegade and rouges will be better. Also as a separatist player I'm pumped for the BoT, finally some good Separatist Droids for the general to send to their deaths. The epic set has me very very curious as one of my favourite pieces in the game is grandmaster Skywalker, so hoping for more of that. *Crosses fingers for a Separstist Grievous* I will continue to support you all in whateve financial ways I can so this can continue.
Thank you again for keeping this game alive and God bless


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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:47 pm 
Master of the Order
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Great post Dennis. :)

I am having more fun with this game now than ever before, and can only imagine how good it will be when I can get back to playing more frequently.

The discussions, previews, bothan transmissions, "suggestion box" threads, customs galleries, along with so much fresh material for squad building (and actually including dusty old pieces on more than a whim!) has and continues to be hugely entertaining.

The v-set team and the community as a whole has made sticking with this game in the absence of a regular playgroup so very worth it.

THANK YOU! 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:21 pm 
Death Star Designers
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It was definitely an interesting experience, and a lot of lessons were obviously learned by a lot of people. I was incredibly happy to play a bigger role in this set as one of the lead playtesters than I did in DotF, and I'm incredibly excited and honored to have been asked to help design for V-set 3. After seeing even more of what goes on behind the scenes of this project, I think it's true that no one really realizes how much thought and effort goes into every little part of this, and how much everyone involved deserves our thanks and recognition for keeping this game alive.

So here's to everyone who helped in any degree with R&R; it's a GREAT set, and I really can't wait until it's fully released so everyone can start having as much fun with it as I have for the past 6 months. :)

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:35 pm 
Death Star Designers
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R&R is definately a bit easier on me. Nothing like explaining Force Abilities, the Yammosk, Route, or Indiscriminate to give headaches.

I was a bit more involved in Epic and Theed, but Engineer really felt like giving me a headache with some of his ideas...

Still, it was interesting to follow things a bit more indepth than last time.

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm 
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The whole design team for this set deserves a huge thank you. It takes a lot of effort and time to get something like this accomplished. I was honored to be allowed to playtest for this set and I am looking forward to contributing more to upcoming v-sets. It was a great experience working with people like Dean and Bill on designing the cards and figuring out what works and what doesn't. And I gotta say, I love the new Maul! :maul:

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:32 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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Huge thanks to the V-set Team! The members of the Design Team have put hundreds of hours into this project, but it wasn't just the designers; let's not forget the people in charge of graphics, quality control, rule interpretation, playtesting, fundraising, etc, etc. It has been a team effort all the way, and the results are amazing.

The game is more fun now than it's ever been...and I think that's the whole point, isn't it?

Three cheers for the entire V-Set Team! :DSBoom: :DSBoom: :DSBoom:

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:59 am 
Master of the Order
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thereisnotry wrote:
let's not forget the people in charge of graphics, quality control, rule interpretation, playtesting, fundraising, etc, etc. It has been a team effort all the way...


Absolutely right.

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:22 am 
Death Star Designers
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R&R brings more to the table then any other set before it. Literally every single piece makes you step back, look at it, and say "I can't wait to play that." its been more wok then I thought it would be as a co lead playtester but boy was it rewarding to finally see the end result.

I look forward to continue to work on these sets and help shape this awesome game.

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:46 am 
Big Bad Brad
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thereisnotry wrote:
let's not forget the people in charge of graphics, quality control, rule interpretation, playtesting, fundraising.



and flavor text....:D

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:40 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
let's not forget the people in charge of graphics, quality control, rule interpretation, playtesting, fundraising.



and flavor text....:D

lol...yes, thanks...I knew I'd miss something in there; thanks for catching it. There are some EPIC flavor texts in this set! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: One designer's random thoughts on Renegades and Rogues
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:49 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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thereisnotry wrote:
The_Celestial_Warrior wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
let's not forget the people in charge of graphics, quality control, rule interpretation, playtesting, fundraising.



and flavor text....:D

lol...yes, thanks...I knew I'd miss something in there; thanks for catching it. There are some EPIC flavor texts in this set! :lol:


Just to reiterrate - they spend at least as many hours on this stuff as the design team. In at least two individual cases (Les and Chris) they spend a great deal more making this happen. As well as all of the other support roles, like Ray overseeing everything Gamers related these days, and all the people around the world helping with play testing. That support is absolutely pivotal to making better sets!

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