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 Post subject: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:26 am 
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Anyone else think it should work vs anything that negates a set amount of damage? I'm thinking of proposing that as a house rule to my group.

Shields, Crabby Armor, Beskar'Gam, and so on?

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:37 am 
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If any of your group ever plans on going to a regional or Gencon, Id say no, as it is likely to lead to confusion if you/they show up to a sanctioned tournament and try to argue that it does work against those abilities.

If you/they dont ever plan on making it to a regional/Gencon, then sure, why not.

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:15 am 
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Also, it would make Captain Rex more overpowered than he already is. For 33pts, he's a huge bargain...and just wait until you see how he works a few months from now! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:47 pm 
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I'm just going out on a limb here, but is this just another thread gripping about General Weir? Seriously, did you just come on to argue, or are you actually going to listen to others? This isn't a good idea, because pieces were not costed with it in mind. It will break quite a few things (Rex was already mentioned). You are welcome to try it, but if I am correct, and this is simply about your fears of General Weir, please actually do some playing with the pieces before you make some drastic change to the game based on a personal desire. That will not be good for your gaming group. It could be perceived as simply convincing others to go along with a change, because it makes your own personal squad better. Once that happens, you've lost all respect with the play group, and the group itself will be injured, perhaps collapse. Please think twice about trying to encourage a rule change for selfish reasons. If I am wrong, then simply consider this a warning. Make sure your motives are what's best for the game, and not what's best for you.

Senate Commandos are still a just fine, tier 2 squad with a ton of options for building around them. They don't need the help. I think once you've actually played in a tournament with General Weir, you'll see that he certainly doesn't break them.

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Disturbed1 wrote:
If any of your group ever plans on going to a regional or Gencon, Id say no, as it is likely to lead to confusion if you/they show up to a sanctioned tournament and try to argue that it does work against those abilities.

If you/they dont ever plan on making it to a regional/Gencon, then sure, why not.



I agree with this reasoning...as long as it is what the GROUP wants. But...if that is indeed the case, why are you even posting it? While I am all for doing things locally to put more people in seats playing Star Wars Minis, creating major rule changes like this will serve to eventually isolate your group. Even if your group has no intentions of ever going to an official tournament, simply encountering groups or players outside your own will result in a lot of confusion. This has happened both ways to my own group, even as recently as this past weekend, where an incorrect interpretation of rules regarding cover played by a group in New York affected our gathering.

Nickname has often said (And I am paraphrasing here) that the value of having a universal rules set is so that 2 total strangers can sit down and play this game without first sorting out 'real life' or 'Star Wars' logic. There are aspects of the rules set that maybe don't make good 'Star Wars' logic but within the 'game logic' make perfect sense. Further, pieces have been designed around these rules for a long time, so changing rules could unravel a lot that has been built on.

In short, as a leader in your group you should be doing what you need to do to promote the game locally. If you are looking for advice, there are lots of us who care about the game who would be glad to pitch in. If however, you are looking to stir things up, without a global view of the game you're just taking a knife to a gunfight.

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:04 pm 
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Disturbed1 wrote:
If any of your group ever plans on going to a regional or Gencon, Id say no, as it is likely to lead to confusion if you/they show up to a sanctioned tournament and try to argue that it does work against those abilities.

If you/they dont ever plan on making it to a regional/Gencon, then sure, why not.


Hmm. I think only one or two people in our group play compedatively and they know the real rules. Though yeah house rules can get confusing. Last time we met with some other folks I got kinda messed up cus I thought we were playing by house rules. So yeah I know what ya mean.

thereisnotry wrote:
Also, it would make Captain Rex more overpowered than he already is. For 33pts, he's a huge bargain...and just wait until you see how he works a few months from now! :)


Oh yeah. Wth all that other stuff he has you almost forget he's got penetration aswell. Hmm. I wonder if he'd be op under that proposed penetration rule. Hmm, wonder what sort of shenanagins Captain Rex will be doing in a few months...

billiv15 wrote:
I'm just going out on a limb here, but is this just another thread gripping about General Weir? Seriously, did you just come on to argue, or are you actually going to listen to others? This isn't a good idea, because pieces were not costed with it in mind. It will break quite a few things (Rex was already mentioned). You are welcome to try it, but if I am correct, and this is simply about your fears of General Weir, please actually do some playing with the pieces before you make some drastic change to the game based on a personal desire. That will not be good for your gaming group. It could be perceived as simply convincing others to go along with a change, because it makes your own personal squad better. Once that happens, you've lost all respect with the play group, and the group itself will be injured, perhaps collapse. Please think twice about trying to encourage a rule change for selfish reasons. If I am wrong, then simply consider this a warning. Make sure your motives are what's best for the game, and not what's best for you.

Senate Commandos are still a just fine, tier 2 squad with a ton of options for building around them. They don't need the help. I think once you've actually played in a tournament with General Weir, you'll see that he certainly doesn't break them.


If this was reguarding Wier, I would have put it on the virtual set thread. Senate Commandos as far as I know don't even have access to penetration. I don't have oddball, nor do I have Captain Rex. So I have no idea why you are jumping back to Wier. All I am doing here is trying to make a previously useless ability have a use. Only figures I have with penetration are Galactic Alliance Troopers. Which I think are overcosted as it is. I've tried to make squads with them but even I know that's a lost cause. So no, unless I can by some miracle figure out a playable Galactic Alliance Trooper squad, penetration being improved doesn't benefit me in the least.

Darth_Jim wrote:
Disturbed1 wrote:
If any of your group ever plans on going to a regional or Gencon, Id say no, as it is likely to lead to confusion if you/they show up to a sanctioned tournament and try to argue that it does work against those abilities.

If you/they dont ever plan on making it to a regional/Gencon, then sure, why not.



I agree with this reasoning...as long as it is what the GROUP wants. But...if that is indeed the case, why are you even posting it? While I am all for doing things locally to put more people in seats playing Star Wars Minis, creating major rule changes like this will serve to eventually isolate your group. Even if your group has no intentions of ever going to an official tournament, simply encountering groups or players outside your own will result in a lot of confusion. This has happened both ways to my own group, even as recently as this past weekend, where an incorrect interpretation of rules regarding cover played by a group in New York affected our gathering.

Nickname has often said (And I am paraphrasing here) that the value of having a universal rules set is so that 2 total strangers can sit down and play this game without first sorting out 'real life' or 'Star Wars' logic. There are aspects of the rules set that maybe don't make good 'Star Wars' logic but within the 'game logic' make perfect sense. Further, pieces have been designed around these rules for a long time, so changing rules could unravel a lot that has been built on.

In short, as a leader in your group you should be doing what you need to do to promote the game locally. If you are looking for advice, there are lots of us who care about the game who would be glad to pitch in. If however, you are looking to stir things up, without a global view of the game you're just taking a knife to a gunfight.


Oh I'm not the leader of my minis group. Just sombody who suggests house rules now and then. But yeah, I know what you mean. House rules can fix things but they can get stupid. Especially involving new players from a different house.

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:41 pm 
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It works as designed. Nuff said.

I am open to something to working against DR and Armors, and a different ability to work against shields.

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Bao-dur. He should do pretty well vs shields.

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:57 pm 
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Weeks wrote:
Bao-dur. He should do pretty well vs shields.

Are we getting an att/def boost for him besides Atris?
Oh, and he might need evasion or a movement breaker too.
(pretty please) :P


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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:04 pm 
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All you have to do is get him adjacent. The character can't use shields at all, not just against Bao-dur.

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:18 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
All you have to do is get him adjacent. The character can't use shields at all, not just against Bao-dur.


Right, but will he be alive long enough for it to matter by the time he gets there?


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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:02 am 
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Isn't this how overwhelming force works?


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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:41 am 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
Isn't this how overwhelming force works?


To some extent. The difference is that I am suggesting that it only get through damage prevention effects that reduce damage by a specific amount. Like say you lightsaber deflect a shot from..Oddball. You prevent all damage. Say then that you make your Crab armor save on a vong, penetration 10 would negate the Crab armor's effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:22 am 
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Penetrating Attack (This character's attacks are not affected by enemy special abilities that reduce damage)


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 Post subject: Re: Penetration.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:15 pm 
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swinefeld wrote:
Penetrating Attack (This character's attacks are not affected by enemy special abilities that reduce damage)


I like it as a new ability. The old one need not be changed. Might want to call it something slightly different, to prevent confusion.

Armor Piercing Attack (This character's attacks are not affected by enemy special abilities that reduce damage)


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