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 Post subject: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:54 pm 
Master of the Order
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Mouse Droid, Mouse Droid,
How I hate thee.
I spit on your plastic shell.
I burn your stat card in hot wax.

Why must you force every design to be convoluted and clunky?
Why can't you just be banned?

Mouse Droid, Mouse Droid,
How I Hate thee.
I burn with Sith Rage when I think about you.

You are evil. You should never have been made.

--------------
Okay, glad to get that off my chest. I feel better now. For a little while. :maul:

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:05 pm 
Master of the Order
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Nice poem, but I thought the meter was a little erratic :P


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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Agreed with both previous posts.

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:18 pm 
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whereas the mouse droid does give certain design issues its far from a hateful piece.

Infact its probably one of the best introductions to the game WotC did in its last few sets as defined by its popularity.

Other figures (Gha Nacht, how i hate thee.... blah blah) have done much worse things.

However, the fact that any 0 dmg character can gain a dmg bonus under the core rules makes the 2 point mouse a problem.

A game wide errata to circumvent that would be better than the persistent lament at having to add mouse droid safety nets.
Its something i feel always should have been made, kind of hate the idea of potty Palpy and Lobot shooting things

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:27 pm 
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fingersandteeth wrote:

A game wide errata to circumvent that would be better than the persistent lament at having to add mouse droid safety nets.
Its something i feel always should have been made, kind of hate the idea of potty Palpy and Lobot shooting things


Despite my general agreement with the no changes to WotC stuff (and I still agree with it), this would probably be the one I would realistically consider supporting :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:26 pm 
One of the Sith on Malgus' Shuttle
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fingersandteeth wrote:
Other figures (Gha Nacht, how i hate thee.... blah blah) have done much worse things.

I hate hate hate Gha only because of the abuse of 10 Mouse Droids as Reinforcements when you have no CEs at all. I hate mice because they're so :shock:ing hard to get/find in boosters. I may have more Luke RC than mice, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:06 pm 
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well, the poem was nice, and while the surmise about the figure is almost there I hate to face them in force as the small shields that they are, why no diminutive ability? why, how does it provide cover? But alas I enjoy running them too

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:33 am 
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Could a counter be a High(ish) Priced Rare (Winter/Crix?)

Scrambled Communications
Replaces turn; Non-living enemy characters with Relay Orders can only count half thier distance for the purpose of commander effects

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:17 am 
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Cerous Mutor wrote:
Could a counter be a High(ish) Priced Rare (Winter/Crix?)

Scrambled Communications
Replaces turn; Non-living enemy characters with Relay Orders can only count half thier distance for the purpose of commander effects


That wouldn't be a counter to the most offending part of the mouse droid, though. They are as strong as they are because they have 20 defense and cost 3 points, 2 points with Gha. For example, my GenCon squad often had 14 mouse droids in it (10 of them via lobot). I didn't need 14 just to spread Princess Leia's CE (the only ranged CE I had); I used them to get more activations, use as cover, and block enemy characters by clogging up hallways an such.

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:24 am 
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Easiest counter is yobuck and lancer to a ton of mice. Mouse droids are annoying as all get out but with some clever squad building and creativity in play you can get around them pretty easy.

I do agree that designing new stuff with mouse droids in the game is a HUGE pain.

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Here's my addition to the world of SWM poetry.

ODE TO GHA NACHT

I do not like you, Senor Gha.
You fill my minis games with blah.
Whenever you and Lobot mate
you crank out mouse droids by the crate.
They spin and spin--oh horrid dance!
I guess I'll gallop, or maybe lance
and send your droids to the dark abyss--
Oh, what a shock! A critical miss.


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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:31 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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buttcabbge wrote:
Here's my addition to the world of SWM poetry.

ODE TO GHA NACHT

I do not like you, Senor Gha.
You fill my minis games with blah.
Whenever you and Lobot mate
you crank out mouse droids by the crate.
They spin and spin--oh horrid dance!
I guess I'll gallop, or maybe lance
and send your droids to the dark abyss--
Oh, what a shock! A critical miss.


+1 :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Echo wrote:
Cerous Mutor wrote:
Could a counter be a High(ish) Priced Rare (Winter/Crix?)

Scrambled Communications
Replaces turn; Non-living enemy characters with Relay Orders can only count half thier distance for the purpose of commander effects


That wouldn't be a counter to the most offending part of the mouse droid, though. They are as strong as they are because they have 20 defense and cost 3 points, 2 points with Gha. For example, my GenCon squad often had 14 mouse droids in it (10 of them via lobot). I didn't need 14 just to spread Princess Leia's CE (the only ranged CE I had); I used them to get more activations, use as cover, and block enemy characters by clogging up hallways an such.

This is true. If I were to suggest an errata for Mouse Droids (and I think that maybe one does need to happen!), then it would be this errata:

-Mouse Droids gain Diminutive (This character does not grant cover to other characters. An enemy character can enter a square containing a Mouse Droid, as long as that character does not end its movement there.)

IMHO, this errata would solve the main problem of mouse droids, which is using them for cover and for blocking. As for the activations issue, well, that's something that we've discussed recently and much more extensively on a broader scale.

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:18 pm 
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I think the main issue Boris is having is future development of new pieces. The mouse droid makes future game development a bit of a head ache.

Perhaps an ability such as Poodle Kick: (replaces attacks; move any adjacent small base character in a direct line away from this character until it encounters a wall. If the movement prior to activating this ability required exactly six squares approaching the small base character, the kicked character takes 10 damage Save 11)

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Well, I think the issue is more Gha Nahct making things far to unreasonable. He limits any option for more Sep Rapport for droids (I still think some extremely limited versions to current crap pieces is still an option though). The Mouse Droids are the main arguement for any more 2 or a 1 pt piece.

Still, something to consider:

Wookiee Roar (replaces attacks, all characters within 3 named Mouse Droid are defeated)

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:17 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
Well, I think the issue is more Gha Nahct making things far to unreasonable. He limits any option for more Sep Rapport for droids (I still think some extremely limited versions to current crap pieces is still an option though). The Mouse Droids are the main arguement for any more 2 or a 1 pt piece.

Still, something to consider:

Wookiee Roar (replaces attacks, all characters within 3 named Mouse Droid are defeated)


+1. and maybe within 6, they return to the starting area.


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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:21 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Silly suggestion for a fringe piece:

SA: enemy characters of cost 0 gain speed 2

That would keep all those reinforcements away from the action. But would also hurt Lando, DS. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:39 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
IMHO, this errata would solve the main problem of mouse droids, which is using them for cover and for blocking. As for the activations issue, well, that's something that we've discussed recently and much more extensively on a broader scale.


That's what I thought right when it came out, it's good to see that's still bouncing around. Back then it was just a hope, but who knows, it may be determined that an errata (that word makes me cringe lol) is needed, and if any thing is errata-worthy, I think that would be one of the few things. I wonder how much the implications beyond relay orders were considered back when it was designed. The 15 MD Kazdan drop was thought of practically as soon as we got that preview, but I wonder if it was at all before that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:10 am 
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Those mouse droids really do bother me. I hate having to slice through walls of them protecting some nasty shooter when playing melee characters. And having half your squad being just a pile of mice for better activations really makes games kinda dumb.

I would suggest eratta for them adding the following ability:

Squishy: Enemy characters can move move through and/or end their turn in the space occupied by this character. If an enemy character occupies or moves through this character's space, this character is defeated.

Wouldn't that be satisfying to just run through a sea of mouse droids and smash em all?

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 Post subject: Re: Ode to Mouse Droid
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:26 pm 
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I've always wondered why you were allowed to boost 0 damage characters at all.

Second, rapport is something that was never good for the game: it was a band-aid to keep old C/UC playable in a thematic sense as 1point doesn't usually make much difference except for mice/battle droids.

I always thought Gha Nacht was lazy character design.


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