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 Post subject: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:23 pm 
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While the design, playtesting, and production of the first Vset Destiny of the Force has been a great success, many logistical problems have plagued this project and threaten to prevent getting the new set in the hands of players in a timely fashion. As many of you are aware, the Kickstarter funding went over goal and a lot of excitement was generated over the idea of the community producing its own set. The designers decided to get extra sets made to cover the demand. Kickstarter got its cut (expected), then Amazon.com took their 10% cut (NOT expected) and around 25 donators for whatever reason would not/could not fulfill their pledges. In short, the set ended up costing more and brought in less. That left a much smaller fund to use for shipping. Shipping has also been a serious issue, most notably overseas.

The intentions of the team were to provide a set for the community free of charge with a core group of that community each donating a modest 20$ each to cover production and shipping. Unfortunately, that won't be enough, given the aforementioned issues. What we are asking is for those who haven't donated if they could help out with shipping by donating 5$ each. This could be done either by donating directly to SWMGamers.com using the 'donate' button at the bottom of the page, or have the pointman for your group donate and everyone just pay him. This will assure that everyone gets their sets in a timely fashion and we can all begin to play with this set.

Many lessons have been learned throughout this whole process...lessons which will serve to make the second Vset an even greater success when it debuts at GenCon in August 2011. Thanks to all who have labored on this, and thanks to all of you for supporting this endeavor.

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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:27 pm 
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donated!

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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Wow, I didn't know that it would be 10%.

Donated as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:13 am 
Sith Apprentice
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
Wow, I didn't know that it would be 10%.


Kickstarter takes 5%, and Amazon takes an amount that works out roughly to 5% when you're looking at individual donations of $20. So yeah, 10%.

On top of that paper is always a lot more expensive to ship because of its density.

On the (sorta) up side... there goes the claims by certain people that it's $3000 of pure profit.


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:33 am 
Black Sun Thug
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Did you guys get the 'Spanish donation'? Just double checking....


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:45 am 
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Sergione wrote:
Did you guys get the 'Spanish donation'? Just double checking....


It's a good idea to check since nobody expects the Spanish donation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A

EDIT: After watching this again, it's kinda PG.

I know it barely fits but it's a good clip. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:17 am 
Black Sun Thug
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
Sergione wrote:
Did you guys get the 'Spanish donation'? Just double checking....


It's a good idea to check since nobody expects the Spanish donation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A

EDIT: After watching this again, it's kinda PG.

I know it barely fits but it's a good clip. :D


That an easy one, but nevertheless a great one!


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:59 am 
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
Sergione wrote:
Did you guys get the 'Spanish donation'? Just double checking....


It's a good idea to check since nobody expects the Spanish donation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A

EDIT: After watching this again, it's kinda PG.

I know it barely fits but it's a good clip. :D


LOL nice one.


10%! Sheesh! :(

Well, at least we can adjust for it next time. I know it's a sticky subject, but might be interesting to discuss the merits of runinng the Kickstarter drive based on a "make 1 donation, get 1 set" basis next time, where we build in a cost for shipping as well. Even if it ends up being more than we need overall (thanks to combined shipping or whatever). For instance, if it was $1800 for 500 sets, that's roughly $3.60 per set. Then just assume around $5 per set for shipping, boxes etc. (might be higher than that, depending on whether Dean had to purchase any boxes/envelopes). Then just do the kickstarter drive where for every $8.50 you donate, you get one set. Obviously, adjusted as necessary based on what the final costs for shipping/boxes/etc. on this set. Heck, could even do $10 per set, that way there is some extra money built into it from the get-go in order to have some extra sets printed up for prize support and stuff like that.

I don't know....just an idea to consider.

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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:10 am 
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LoboStele wrote:

Well, at least we can adjust for it next time. I know it's a sticky subject, but might be interesting to discuss the merits of runinng the Kickstarter drive based on a "make 1 donation, get 1 set" basis next time, where we build in a cost for shipping as well. Even if it ends up being more than we need overall (thanks to combined shipping or whatever). For instance, if it was $1800 for 500 sets, that's roughly $3.60 per set. Then just assume around $5 per set for shipping, boxes etc. (might be higher than that, depending on whether Dean had to purchase any boxes/envelopes). Then just do the kickstarter drive where for every $8.50 you donate, you get one set. Obviously, adjusted as necessary based on what the final costs for shipping/boxes/etc. on this set. Heck, could even do $10 per set, that way there is some extra money built into it from the get-go in order to have some extra sets printed up for prize support and stuff like that.

I don't know....just an idea to consider.


That does sound a lot better, but I think that once you start putting more sets to be shipped one place, the cost of shipping per set goes down (up to a certain point). That's not really a bad thing, but it's something that when you're charging per set it's easier to be accused of doing it for profit, especially when you start saving on shipping becasue you are sending multiples at a time. Currently that's the only problem I foresee with that, but as long as the facts are ready to put down the accusations, that seems like a good new direction to go after this learning experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:16 am 
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
That does sound a lot better, but I think that once you start putting more sets to be shipped one place, the cost of shipping per set goes down (up to a certain point). That's not really a bad thing, but it's something that when you're charging per set it's easier to be accused of doing it for profit, especially when you start saving on shipping becasue you are sending multiples at a time. Currently that's the only problem I foresee with that, but as long as the facts are ready to put down the accusations, that seems like a good new direction to go after this learning experience.


Yeah, that is a concern. But we just do like we did with this one and put a disclaimer which says that anything collected above the need would go towards either prize support sets, or be put aside for the following set.

Plus, I think with the next one, we'll probably space out the timeline a little better, especially now that we understand how kickstarter works a bit better. With DOTF, it would've been a lot easier if the Kickstarter was scheduled to end on November 1st instead of December 1st. That would've given us a month to get the money and pay the printer, and figure out all the addresses and all that stuff. So, we've learned a lot about how to do it all from here on. Heck, for Set 2, the guys have already appointed someone to be sort of a 'Project Manager' to try and keep tabs on that kind of stuff better.

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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:24 am 
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
That does sound a lot better, but I think that once you start putting more sets to be shipped one place, the cost of shipping per set goes down (up to a certain point). That's not really a bad thing, but it's something that when you're charging per set it's easier to be accused of doing it for profit, especially when you start saving on shipping becasue you are sending multiples at a time. Currently that's the only problem I foresee with that, but as long as the facts are ready to put down the accusations, that seems like a good new direction to go after this learning experience.


Nah, we aren't going to move to charging per set. That isn't at all the point of this process. It is, and will remain a community effort, with the community combining resources to get quality prints, and cover shipping, on an as needed basis. Sure, things could be easier to do a $20 gets you a set, and you must pay kind of deal, but that's not at all what this is about. You pointed out one of the significant reasons why we won't do that.

There are other reasons as well, like selling sets would require a personal investment up front for Dean to order for those who don't purchase ahead of time (which in this case would have been something like 400 people).

Another is that we as a community want to provide sets to anyone and everyone who wants one, to keep the game alive, so we have chosen as a group to pay the price so that others who can't can also continue with us.

The details of the logistics really don't need to be out there for public debate. Dean knows exactly what has worked, and what hasn't, and we all knew this was a learning process first time around. Second time will get better, and third time even more so. No need for people who don't know all the information to tell Dean the "best" way to do it, as he knows better than everyone else after having been primarily involved in all aspects logistically.

Here's an example - there was no way to predict that we would lose $400-500 from kickstarter donations that people didn't actually cover. Next time we will have a better guess at that. Another is, Dean didn't know the length of time required for KS, now he does. We don't need others to tell Dean how to plan it, he already knows :) Not that advice isn't helpful, and there are always good ideas that we don't think of, but unsolicited help can get annoying, particularly when its not needed, or doesn't include all the necessary requirements of a given situation. (Not targeted at anyone here, just making points).

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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:15 pm 
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I just sent out messages asking the couple of KC guys who didn't do the kickstarter to throw five bucks into the kitty if they can spare it--I'd encourage other pointmen to do the same for their areas. I'm planning to donate five bucks when I get home this afternoon (don't really want to feed my credit card number into my computer at school, given how often our network gets compromised). I think I'd probably rather help Dean with shipping than buy one more Clone Wars booster I don't need the next time I'm at Target.


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:00 am 
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I slapped down 20, mostly out of guilt for never pledging. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:20 am 
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I put $20 down for this set a few weeks ago, and it seems to have covered the set cost for my group of 2 other people. I missed out on the kickstarter, but I just donated using the Donate button on this website. It's not that hard to do people. The donate button uses paypal, so its pretty easy to use. I strongly recomend everyone who didn't pay for a kickstarter or donate yet to donate $5. Its not a whole lot of money. After you recieve these cards, believe me, you will be getting your money's worth. These are better quality cards than WotC ever made. Lets help make V-Set 2 a reality folks!

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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:51 am 
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Thanks for letting us know! I donated $20 via KS so I could get a set, but just donated another $5 to help cover the unexpected expenses. My small way of thanking the community for all the hard work they've done to keep the game going (and I figure evert little bit helps).


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:09 pm 
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Just made a donation on behalf of my group. :Boba:


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:07 am 
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Put in $10 to help cover shipping :D


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:48 pm 
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I have donated the $5, I may be new to this site but what it is doing is an awesome thing for the Star Wars Minis Universe.


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Just donated another $10 to help the postage to Australia. Thanks for all your hard work guys - really appreciated by all the Aussie guys!


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 Post subject: Re: Destiny of the Force...we need your help!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Sent $40. $20 for the initial pledge and the additional $20...sounds like Dean and several others need to take a break at Ye Ol' Cantina.

I love this game.

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