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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:43 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
Lets see, stay out of los from the two ATSTs in Thrawns bubble. Ok on any of the three DCI 200 maps, I know exactly where those are and how to avoid them already. Next get within 12 of Thrawn - easy to do. run 12 and twin - follow with Pricess Leia, dead Thrawn...


While maneuvering around 2 huge bases... yep, easy!

Heck, my dream would be to stick Thrawn in the corner of a wall surrounded by 2 huges that no melee can get through. I *think* there is a way to do that on Rancor Pit, I *know* there is a way to do it on the good side of the RotS starter, but I am unfamiliar with the Chancellor's Starship to know it can be done there (perhaps a roadblock in the hallway?).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:37 pm 
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emr131 wrote:
I am thinking a new 200 point army will be an AT-ST, BS1, Thrawn, Mas, etc. Luke can't do crud against it, nor can any Force users as they stay in Thrawn's bubble.

You got a twinning attacker at +10 for 40 each, followed by a double attacker at a net +15 for 40 each (-4 from flanking, +3 from Thrawn). Non deflectable, not reflectable, Luke can have fun.


I know I'm considering an AT-ST build for my 200 point game 2 weeks after the FU release. I'm just waiting to see if first the Wookiee Hunter is better than the basic At-St for it and second if there's maybe something more interesting in the set I might want to try out more instead.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:38 pm 
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masterjudge wrote:
I bet the wookiee hunter AT-ST will have: Wookie Hunter +2 attack and +10 damage against wookiees. Similar to Jedi Hunter just toned down.

Speaking of AT-ST's.
They should put an AT-PT in one of the upcoming sets.


I had originally thought that the Wookie AT-ST will negate the Demolish. Time will tell....I still feel that is a viable option.

This attack bonus is nice as well though. My issue is most wookies already have low defenses so it would pretty much guarantee hits. As for +10 damage....well 40 to start with is already huge. I don't see it being pushed to 50. (assumption wookie ATST has same damage output)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:47 pm 
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Well, simply put Jason... I disagree. Durge compared to Blizz 1 is apples to oranges. Double vs. Twin is a BIG deal... yes double lets you kill more screeners, but Twin is FAR more powerful as it gives you mobility. If you build to deal with swarms too (which you're a dumbarse if you don't) then you will be able to use Twin just fine.

Look, as ever, play skill is what matters most. My opinion is that Blizz 1 is very, VERY powerful in the hands of a skilled player. Too much so, imho. Is it beatable? You bet. Is it powercreep, I most assuredly think so.

To those of you that point out how Yoda+Luke will just casually beat aside sustained ranged fire... thank you for reinforcing my concern on power creep.

As stated... I am becoming nearly certain that a large percentage of my previously viable or semi-viable figures will now become non-viable. That... sucks. If I'm wrong... groovy... but every preview now is delivering something that feels just plain over-the-top compared with everything else.

One observation to think about... I have this funny feeling that FU may contain more characters with Twin Attack than all previous sets combined (there were 16 prior to FU). I think likewise about Force Renewal (there were 11 prior to FU... we've seen 4 already so far) Considering those are two of the most powerful powers in the game, that alone makes me serious wonder about creep.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:10 pm 
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[quote="Grambo"] but every preview now is delivering something that feels just plain over-the-top compared with everything else.

[quote]

See preview 4? WoTC seems fresh out of "over the top"

I think you have a legit concern regarding the previews, but of course they are going to show us the "cool figs" for the most part.

In my opinion, Blizz 1 is roughly on par with Enraged Chewie on a point for point basis. Strong in many situations, but due to either savage or unique, unable to really benefit from the commander effects of the faction.

Is it powercreep? Over the old AT-ST, probably. Which I can see is your concern, that the figures you own are not as good without or because of the figures that are being released. Will this figure powercreep the metagame? I very much doubt it. It doesn't add anything to the most powerful builds, nor does it counter the most powerful squads. Could it create a squad that is more powerful than the tier 1 currently? I fail to see that happening, as this doesn't have game against some of the top figures around.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:21 pm 
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Actually, Grambo, becuase Luke and Yoda are being released around teh same time as Blizzard Scout 1 is exactly why some of the older pieces will remain playable.

Luke and Yoda offer a direct counter to BS1, therefore the possibility of facing a L&Y squad will keep BS1 from being played competitively, for the most part. It doesn't mean you have to play L&Y or the BS1. EMR showed that at GenCon by playing the JH version of B&B. It was still viable. This was partly due to how the meta shifts from set to set. It's quite possible that L&Y or BS1 may completely invalidate one particular type of squad build or another, but it doesn't completely invalidate EVERYTHING. Who knows, maybe in the Legacy set next year something else will come along that will counter BS1, while helping that older squad be competitive once again. Now that older squad is good enough to top BS1 or L&Y, but it may not make it good enough to beat, say, San Hill.

It's all balance. And so far, nothing that we have seen moves the balance enough to be completely dominant over everything else. It's just jockeying positions.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:12 pm 
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Time to go couch diving for enough money for a Target Trip!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:26 pm 
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Fool wrote:
Some more pics to satiate the masses
Thanks go out to raf_park and everyone at Swminis.fr

Batle of Hoth Scenario Pack Map 1

Image

Battle of Hoth Scenario Pack Map 2 (Reprint from AT-AT Scenario Pack)
Image




AT-AT Scenario Pack Map 1

Image

AT-AT Scenario Pack Map 2
Image

It looks like we are only getting one new map. :roll: At least the new map looks like it may be able to become 200 point DCI Legal. Good like getting an AT-AT on it though.


Last edited by R5Don4 on Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:52 pm 
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Load faster giant map pics!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:54 pm 
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Last I heard it was going for $60. I hope I'm wrong and it's less.

And, um, a Rebel Leader in the set?? Kinda harkens back to "One of these things is not like the others.."


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:09 pm 
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Fool wrote:
Woah I can't believe It - I posted this shortly after rafpark did so as well on the Wizos General forum and his thread is well.....

Gone.


You can't believe it? The Wizo's are pretty hands on tonight.
Another reason why boards like this are so very important. Corpoarate owned and run boards don't always have Freedom of Information as their highest priority.

Pretty stupid as it is available for sale as of tomorrow which is actually is today over there.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:14 pm 
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I want to go to Target now and wait for them to open so I can get mine.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:19 pm 
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Ooops, I didn't make myself clear. It goes on sale in Europe tomorrow. It goes on sale in the US the same time as FU.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:35 pm 
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hothie wrote:
Last I heard it was going for $60. I hope I'm wrong and it's less.

And, um, a Rebel Leader in the set?? Kinda harkens back to "One of these things is not like the others.."


I'm fairly sure she's only there because of her "Spotter 20" CE, a valuable commodity against DR characters (like the AT-ST and AT-AT).

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:45 pm 
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Now we have a use for the extra Hoth Leia we get with this set. Lop off her head, lop off Rebel Leader's head, quick head swap and Voila Hoth Rebel Leader!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:57 pm 
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Power creep discussions abound every set; and yet every set we see balance to the factions. The meta shifts slightly and old figs that were useless are brought back out of the box. I'd like to see the doom and gloom conversations keep going after great sales reports for the FU and Hoth set are tallied.

About the maps:

Is it 2 double sided maps that fit with each other? That's what it sounded like. I don't have the AT-AT yet and if it requires that map to fit with I best get one quick!!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:17 am 
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No, it's ONE double-sided map in the Hoth Pack. Originally, back at CIV, Rob told us that the map was planned to be the same image on both sides, just reversed, so that you could link it up to both sides of the AT-AT map. Looks like what actually happened was we got something that would link up to the AT-AT map, but then the reprinted AT-AT map on the other side. Which is actually fine with me, since I never bought the AT-AT, so it'll be nice to finally have that other map (not that I really need it since it's completely unplayable from a competitive perspective).

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:50 am 
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cool thanx for the explanation; apparently I wasn't paying enough attention to the captions of the previous map photos Hoth Side #2 = AT-AT side #1 so if I want a shield generator on Hoth it must come from the AT-AT pack. I guess that makes sense. I'm a bit disappointed that Echo base isn't featured in this new pack. Someday......

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:14 am 
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LoboStele wrote:
Actually, Grambo, becuase Luke and Yoda are being released around teh same time as Blizzard Scout 1 is exactly why some of the older pieces will remain playable.

Luke and Yoda offer a direct counter to BS1, therefore the possibility of facing a L&Y squad will keep BS1 from being played competitively, for the most part. It doesn't mean you have to play L&Y or the BS1. EMR showed that at GenCon by playing the JH version of B&B. It was still viable. This was partly due to how the meta shifts from set to set. It's quite possible that L&Y or BS1 may completely invalidate one particular type of squad build or another, but it doesn't completely invalidate EVERYTHING. Who knows, maybe in the Legacy set next year something else will come along that will counter BS1, while helping that older squad be competitive once again. Now that older squad is good enough to top BS1 or L&Y, but it may not make it good enough to beat, say, San Hill.

It's all balance. And so far, nothing that we have seen moves the balance enough to be completely dominant over everything else. It's just jockeying positions.


You may be right, Lobo... but I think you're wrong. I think you're giving too much credit on faith and faith alone. I think there is a MUCH larger metashift in this expansion than in any previous, based on what we've seen so far. I think Rob is trying to "make some changes" in this set, more so than in previous. And, I think it is going to change the game... considerably. Unless the entire rest of the set is much more like the weaker parts of the preview, and less like the stronger, we are in for the biggest "powershift" of any set so far, I believe. If so, no "later shift" is going to correct it... and we will be in for the type of ride that Magic then got on... where every new set invalidated significant chunks of the previous sets. That... if it is truly where we're headed... blows goats, in my opinion...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:53 am 
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Yes, the meta is going to change. It always changes. Probably the biggest change since Universe or COTF. I have yet to see anything that completely invalidates previous stuff that wasn't already crap (Komari, though even she gets a small boost).

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