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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:32 pm 
Master of the Order
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I think you're giving the new Hoth Chewie too much credit EMR. Look at what Hoth Chewie does in comparison to RS Chewie.

RS Chewie has a huge amount of synergy with his two abilities. Momentum and Cleave are a prefect combination. Move up and kill something less than 30 HP, and get a free attack. So, you get the potential for 60 damage.

Hoth Chewie has to stay in one place, out in the open, in order to grant a simple +4/+10 to another figure.

Now, we don't know what the costs are for the new 'Mounted Weapon' pieces in TFU, but the cheapest we have right now is 23 (Skiff) and then 38 (Snowspeeder) (at least of those that can work with Chewie). So, you're talking about taking up the turn of a 22 point figure to get that +4/+10 on some other huge piece.

Hoth Chewie is obviously not designed to be an attacking figure. But when you take his cost and abilities, and look at what he must do in order to use any of those abilities, he's obviously designed to be an extremely different piece than RS Chewie. RS Chewie is designed to be nothing more than an attacking figure. So, when you play him appropriately, he should stay in cover or out of LOS a lot until he closes in and starts using Momentum against stuff. Hoth Chewie on the other hand, has to sit out in the open for Deadeye, Repair, or Gunner, meaning that the new Chewie will likely get to use those abilities only a couple of times before he gets wasted.

You can't just take the two figures and blindly compare what's printed on the cards. The numbers might be similar, but how they work together, and what it costs the character to use the abilities is how the cost is figured out. Oh, and comparing Chewie of Kashyyyk is silly too since it's a different faction.

Honestly, IMO, the bonus that Hoth Chewie gives to a Mounted Weapon unit (which don't get played much right now anyway), I can't see how it could possibly be better than RS Chewie's damage potential. But not necessarily worse either. Just different.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:49 pm 
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emr131 wrote:
Jedi1972 wrote:
Chewie's one to show all those "Power Creep" doomsayers. lol


You deny that this chewie is better then the RS one? Closest in cost and yet this one has the exact same statline, deadeye instead of momentum, and industrial repair/gunner 10 instead of cleave.

Yes, I think that this chewie is better then the RS one, shows creep over it, and it underlies my general statement: RS-RotS statlines/cost suck compared to the the current ones. The 'price adjustment' that melee has undertaken should not have made this chewie better then the RS one.

How about Chewie of K? Do you think deadeye and a +1 to attack, 20 extra HP, and industrial repair/gunner 10 is worth the 3 less points compared to momentum and double? I think so.

RH is still superior but this chewie is 25% cheaper a figure. Comparing the two are like comparing the new Iggy to the Old... their prices are just too different to directly compare.


Thanks for proving you arent interested in a real discussion, just arguing a point and trying to be "right". You aren't. I highly doubt you even believe a word of what you just wrote. Stop trying to prove a point and just admit in this case, your point is dead wrong.

For everyone but Emr - who for whatever reason refuses to admit defeat on this - Chewy is a nice fig. Should fit in well in theme and gimmick builds with the new huges. I like the 100hps for 22 with some added synergy as a decent shooter in situations - on par with Leia without the fprrs. It certainly doesnt replace any old figures, as the rebels have nothing like it. Choosing him over RH will be tough - other than specific builds.

Arguing power creep... Priceless.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:58 pm 
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"meh" to that VR.

Snowtrooper = WTH?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:01 pm 
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I think we are missing a key point:

If this chewie is betrays on an attack against palps, he can then repair and gunner the AT-ST wookie hunter!

That alone makes him amazing :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:14 pm 
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Solodan wrote:
I think we are missing a key point:

If this chewie is betrays on an attack against palps, he can then repair and gunner the AT-ST wookie hunter!

That alone makes him amazing :)


ROFL! I can't believe that! I guess the only word for that unfortunate situation is: UGLY!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:24 pm 
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I was expecting Draw Fire as well. My guess, this Chewie seems to represent the one repairing the Falcon in the Hoth hangar bay more than the one who went out after the Probe Droid. <shrug>

Statwise, he seems about right. I find these abilities a bit worse than RS Chewie where Momentum and Cleave are a very nice combo. 22 seems close. He's not the best straight up fighter and he'll never replace Chewie RH as the go-to Chewie but if you have a squad design that takes advantage of his SAs he could be worth his cost.

Absent the rest of FU, he best matchup would seem to be Vipers where a little repair can go a long way and when they're at full health you can boost them to +12 for 40 on one attack. Not half bad... (Though I doubt the average damage is as good as just attacking seperately at +8/30 regardless of the Defense involved. My guess, the only time it makes mathmatical sense to combine is when the 40 damage is exactly what is needed for the kill. Math wizards?)


Last edited by NickName on Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:26 pm 
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homer fett wrote:
but I wonder why the Snowtrooper was chosen for a preview by Wizards?


Good question?
Anyone think that Kidsworld "say no more previews" has anything to do with this.

Gunner+10 is this different as i thought it was +4 attack.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:51 pm 
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"Thanks for proving you arent interested in a real discussion, just arguing a point and trying to be "right". You aren't. I highly doubt you even believe a word of what you just wrote. Stop trying to prove a point and just admit in this case, your point is dead wrong."

Thanks for proving you aren't interested in a real discussion.
(I think this applies to you as well.)

Now i am not saying your opinion is wrong or right after all an opinion is just an opinion . But you have slammed he's opinion saying he's not interested in a real discussion and then said you are dead wrong full stop.
Not really a discussion is it?

I think this Chewie is a fair Piece for he's cost. Not as good as RH but he cost less, you would expect a character that cost more to be better. As for RS version i think he is as good as for different reasons. It will depend on who else you take, there mite be several pieces in this set who mite benefit from this Chewie as there are other that will benefit from the older versions of Chewie. Sometimes it just better to have an attacking character. ( sometimes)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:03 pm 
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I like this Chewie. I think the Repair/Gunner is worth two less than the Cleave/Momentum combo. To use Repair or Gunner, Chewie can't attack. And they can't be used together. Deadeye means he has to stand still, which doesn't work too well with other Rebel CE's. Neat piece, but I don't see any argument for power creep.

I think he has Wookiee so people don't have to use the glossary defination to know he is a Wookiee. Perhaps an errata that states all Chewies have Wookiee is coming.

Though no one seems interested in noting the change to Gunner.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:18 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
I like this Chewie. I think the Repair/Gunner is worth two less than the Cleave/Momentum combo. To use Repair or Gunner, Chewie can't attack. And they can't be used together. Deadeye means he has to stand still, which doesn't work too well with other Rebel CE's. Neat piece, but I don't see any argument for power creep.

I think he has Wookiee so people don't have to use the glossary defination to know he is a Wookiee. Perhaps an errata that states all Chewies have Wookiee is coming.

Though no one seems interested in noting the change to Gunner.


I did note the change in gunner and like it a lot. to me if you combine shots you are combining damage so like this a lot. :D

I thought Wookie already applied to chewie and tarfull anyway, so thought this was just confirming it and would now be on any WOOKIE character.

Do you think there's any chance that the Rebel Marksman will have SA commando. and is it a marks woman?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:21 pm 
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I did miss somthing on chewie, and that is his gunner grants +10 in addition to +4 attack. This may not be major, but who knows?



As a different version, he's intresting and all that, but I really don't like him. I'd rather have RH or the original chewbacca myself.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:22 pm 
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Actually, it can be. Considering he can get Spotter 20, and since they are different SAs, I foresee Golan's hitting for a lot.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:24 pm 
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Oops i think i misunderstood i thought it was +10 damage not +10 attack. makes him useful with the Atgar.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:27 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
Actually, it can be. Considering he can get Spotter 20, and since they are different SAs, I foresee Golan's hitting for a lot.



Oooh....nice catch Sithborg. :D

Actually, I noted the Gunner +10 bit in my long winded post.

And Bill, yeah, settle down a bit. The negative tones of some about the power-creep stuff irritate me too sometimes, but it doesn't warrant replies of out right dismissal. Whether emr wanted to discuss it or not, you basically told him he wasn't allowed to.

I don't have mod power in this particular forum, but if that kind of stuff goes on much, I'll be finding one of the mods to lock the thread.

Let's have a civil discussion.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:27 pm 
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Atgar doesn't have Mounted Weapon, so Gunner is worthless.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:34 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
Atgar doesn't have Mounted Weapon, so Gunner is worthless.


Your right i just assumed with out looking. Still i think this Chewie can be useful and well worth trying out even if i go back to RH later. Sometimes it's just nice to be able to take all the rebel main players in the same team. As Chewie RH cost more sometimes that's hard to do. Of course this depends on how many points you are fielding at the time.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:48 pm 
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Oops i think i misunderstood i thought it was +10 damage not +10 attack.


It is +10 Damage. The +4 Attack comes from the fact that you're combining fire.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:03 pm 
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NickName wrote:
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Oops i think i misunderstood i thought it was +10 damage not +10 attack.


It is +10 Damage. The +4 Attack comes from the fact that you're combining fire.


Thats not bad when as someone has pointed out if you can combine with spotter 20.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:38 pm 
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homer fett wrote:
Jedi1972 wrote:
the Wookie special Ability makes me wonder if Hoth Han will have some sort of synergy with wookies.


I just posted on Wizard's site wondering if the Wookie SA is to help define the targets for the new Wookie Hunter ATST. I have a feeling it is going to get a nice bonus to hit wookies. If so, it would stink considering how much I like the Wookie FFs.


That's some pretty sharp insight actually; I was only thinking of boosts and not the very probable upcoming negatives for the big fur balls.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:51 pm 
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I like Chewie. He's an ok piece, but for a VR I'm hoping he's one of the ones I have to trade for.

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