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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:26 am 
Moff Disra
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Lord_Nihl wrote:
I agree with emr, there's no way these boards will be as big as the boards sponsored by the company that makes the game.

Just isn't in the cards

The Realms sites are bigger than the Wizkidgames forums (HCrealms is huge). I think if WOTC keeps on the same path, this site will be more popular.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:40 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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emr131 wrote:
I have adapted in their system, some may instead choose to leave it, so be it. I saw a slew of posts removed/edited this past week, and my statement is this: if they don't want sarcasm and they certainly don't want personal attacks, just refrain from them and wow, you are fine to post there.


So your premise is that they are now trying to remove "sarcasm and personal attacks". How many examples of not doing so do I need to show you to convince you this is not the case? Typically by your own logic, one should be enough - but I could probably find many more than that.

They allow certain types of attacks, but not others. If you openly discuss another poster (or simply mention them by name has been enough) and criticize them, they will remove it (when reported). If you veil it thinly (so that only those who are familiar with the ongoing issues between two particular people) they will ignore it and leave it up.

The key to getting away with being rude is to veil your comments so that only those who have followed the discourse will understand the context and the nature and severity of the attacks.

Those who even nicely criticize someone openly will get modded. Its not a fair or nice system. It allows those who skirt the rules to get away with comments, while those who follow them, get in trouble.

And now for an example. Darth Vaughn who many of you know has taken some kind of personal vendetta against me, likes to insert some snide comment in just about every thread he posts in. But he never mentions my name, just refers to things I have done. I have reported those, and they remain up, unedited. However, if I respond to his initial comment, mine gets edited out, and his left unchecked. It happened this week in the "Abbreviations" thread on general.

I was not even involved in the conversation until DV made an off topic comment responding to someone who said, "One person doesnt go around naming figs". He then said, "Unless you start a thread about it". It might appear benign, but given the history, and given the nature of the comment (which to mention is off topic and irrelevent to the debate of the thread), it was meant to be an attack on me.

Who else has started a thread about naming a figure lately? Yet the mods refused to do anything about it, or respond to my complaint. I then made a retort in the thread and mine got edited because I specifically mentioned his name.

I understand the rules of the forum, and I also understand how to make polite discourse. No one should be allowed to constantly (this is comment 15+ from DV) attack another person by slipping it in under the rules. If the mods dont have time to pay attention to these things themselves, they need to listen to the comments made when reporting - rather than just reading the comment itself in isolation.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:52 am 
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billiv15 wrote:
emr131 wrote:
I have adapted in their system, some may instead choose to leave it, so be it. I saw a slew of posts removed/edited this past week, and my statement is this: if they don't want sarcasm and they certainly don't want personal attacks, just refrain from them and wow, you are fine to post there.


So your premise is that they are now trying to remove "sarcasm and personal attacks". How many examples of not doing so do I need to show you to convince you this is not the case? Typically by your own logic, one should be enough - but I could probably find many more than that.

They allow certain types of attacks, but not others. If you openly discuss another poster (or simply mention them by name has been enough) and criticize them, they will remove it (when reported). If you veil it thinly (so that only those who are familiar with the ongoing issues between two particular people) they will ignore it and leave it up.

The key to getting away with being rude is to veil your comments so that only those who have followed the discourse will understand the context and the nature and severity of the attacks.

Those who even nicely criticize someone openly will get modded. Its not a fair or nice system. It allows those who skirt the rules to get away with comments, while those who follow them, get in trouble.

And now for an example. Darth Vaughn who many of you know has taken some kind of personal vendetta against me, likes to insert some snide comment in just about every thread he posts in. But he never mentions my name, just refers to things I have done. I have reported those, and they remain up, unedited. However, if I respond to his initial comment, mine gets edited out, and his left unchecked. It happened this week in the "Abbreviations" thread on general.

I was not even involved in the conversation until DV made an off topic comment responding to someone who said, "One person doesnt go around naming figs". He then said, "Unless you start a thread about it". It might appear benign, but given the history, and given the nature of the comment (which to mention is off topic and irrelevent to the debate of the thread), it was meant to be an attack on me.

Who else has started a thread about naming a figure lately? Yet the mods refused to do anything about it, or respond to my complaint. I then made a retort in the thread and mine got edited because I specifically mentioned his name.

I understand the rules of the forum, and I also understand how to make polite discourse. No one should be allowed to constantly (this is comment 15+ from DV) attack another person by slipping it in under the rules. If the mods dont have time to pay attention to these things themselves, they need to listen to the comments made when reporting - rather than just reading the comment itself in isolation.


Is there a person who can contacted directly regarding this issue? I'll look into that.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:54 am 
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Fool wrote:
(And the weirdos and crazy posters stay there)


Too late, Fool. I'm already here. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:56 am 
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Honestly, I hope this site never gets anywhere close to as big as WotC.

That means the idiots would be here too and there would be little to distinguish the two sites.

The moderation there has always been inconsistant. I prefer when it was more lax but those days appear to be gone. I've found it's pretty easy to post in a way that doesn't violate the CoC. Tone is everything even when the content is benign.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:57 am 
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Pendragon wrote:
Is there a person who can contacted directly regarding this issue? I'll look into that.


They told me to put him on my "ignore list". And then told me to contact WotC customer service.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:43 am 
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The one thing that the WOTC boards do better is the Trading Threads. They have so many more members.

Some of the people who post here have not posted their trade threads here, just on WOTC.

Not a dig at anyone, just an observation.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:16 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
I understand the rules of the forum, and I also understand how to make polite discourse. No one should be allowed to constantly (this is comment 15+ from DV) attack another person by slipping it in under the rules. If the mods dont have time to pay attention to these things themselves, they need to listen to the comments made when reporting - rather than just reading the comment itself in isolation.

Oh, I agree. I prefer to just let others call the individual out with his constant targeting. Rise to the baiting and it continues, let others point out the baiting and trolling and it might slow. I have had my posts deleted, edited, etc without a single reason given in a PM or reply by a moderator there... eh somebody must not liked what I said. As long as it is not a warning, I care not.

Of course, should my 3rd warning happen, then I will create a new name just for PMing Real Life friends for events every week and stop posting there completely (chances are, if I can't learn to post by guidelines with 3 tries then I don't need to be on the site because it is not worth it for me to try to learn their system). Being the pessimist I am, I have little doubt that my 3rd warning will be like this:

it would go something like this:
Guy 1: Rules Question
Nickname: Rules Answer
Guy 2: Further Question
emr131: Logic based on Nickname dictates this answer
WizO_the_Hutt: emr131, that is incorrect because of this made up on the spot rule by me.
emr131: okay... but what happens in this case?
WizO_the_Hutt: Warning > BAN.

billiv15 wrote:
Pendragon wrote:
Is there a person who can contacted directly regarding this issue? I'll look into that.


They told me to put him on my "ignore list". And then told me to contact WotC customer service.

Hey, what do you know, at least that is consistent. There is a reason 2 people remain on my ignore list. One uses the worst grammar I have seen (and I taught K-8th for 2 years), the other... I just dislike.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:19 pm 
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I guess I feel a little lucky that I only get to browse the WotC boards for about 30 minutes a week any more. I'd probably get into a lot of trouble over there. It is a shame though, because on a forum like this one, posters who consistently berate other members, even if it is in veiled comments, would get disciplined. I know I personally will take the time to address any such issues if they ever arise here, though hopefully they won't.

It really is a shame that things have degenerated so quickly over there lately. I too pretty much just hit the rules forums real quick to see what new stuff is getting ruled on. Although, I think I'm going to have to start writing down questions whenever I have them so I can remember what stuff I want to ask whenever I do get a chance to view the WotC boards. As it stands now, I can't remember what things I had questions about, lol.

If other sites like Kidzworld and pojo.com have had previews in the past, I don't think it's that much of a stretch for us to have some too down the road. We'll see.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:26 pm 
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emr131 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
They told me to put him on my "ignore list". And then told me to contact WotC customer service.

Hey, what do you know, at least that is consistent. There is a reason 2 people remain on my ignore list. One uses the worst grammar I have seen (and I taught K-8th for 2 years), the other... I just dislike.


The reason I choose not to is so that I can see the comments when they are made. I dont really get emotionally riled up by them, so I want the option to respond and report. I told them this and they did not respond further.

By the way, I finally got my first official warning. It was not for any comment I have ever made however. It was because I bumped my thread about trying to get my minis back without waiting 48 hours. The funny part was, they told me to consult the CoC and there is nothing about that actually in there!

But this rule I understand and I recognize I violated it. I explained my reasons for bumping it, but received no further responses from the Wizos about it.

I told them I wanted it on the first page so that someone might actually see it who plays in Milwaukee (since I was out of town and needed someone to ask around for me). The thread was bumped off the first page in about an hour so the next day I bumped it back up. Lol, what can you do. I thought it a good reason.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:34 pm 
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to have as much posters if more then wotc, alls we need is committed fans...imo, swm has the most loyal fans around. we stuck threw thick-and-thin, suffered hards ships(wheres my emmy!? :P) and yet the community is growing ever day. and the ones already in are growing more committed every day. me, i am not nessesarly boycotting them, just not going to them unless for previews. once this site gets peviews, i'll have no reason. one thing thats really annoying is how its a "gleemax" site now. wtf? i remember when that first came out, and half of us were like, wow, rediculous! now the whole site is that. alls we need to is take are trade threads/trades here, and do the same kind of system for keeping track. alls the mods here are fans and we keep on the subject and dont randomly edit/delete. we know what we're talking about. so its not like we're lost or just deleting because someone says "thats offencive" i for one never get reports. why? because we post on them too, and if we see something offencive or dorogatory, its gone. we warn-give reason-and assist. i really got to work on my trade thread, but the fact is thingss around here are crazy, and trades would be long and tiresome. only reason. guys, this is the best group around, and i completely agree with fool, this site may become bigger then wotc. but only if we make it happen-if we keep strong and committed...now to end on a humorous note

THE REBELLION HAS BEGUN!!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:37 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
They told me to put him on my "ignore list". And then told me to contact WotC customer service.


That's an odd way of dealing with the problem.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:41 pm 
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Fool wrote:
If you ignore it, it will go away.

Won't it?

Won't it??????


If that was the case we'd all just bury our heads in the sand. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:26 pm 
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IMO it all went to hell when Wotc_Erik/c left. I think he really had a passion for this game and more the RPG. I think Gleemax was the worst thing WOTC could have done to us SWM players. I also think that we are missing something I mean did anyone notice how Erik/c posted some stuff about the set and then all of a sudden he is leaving to work at EA? Seems like a little more than a coincidence. And Rob never posts there anymore the Bothan Transmissions were fun and we don't get any of that. Heck I wonder if we will even get a Christmas preview (Last years was Luke COTF and Rob posted a pic and full stats on Christmas Day) this year. Well maybe I'm being paranoid but thats just my $0.02.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:07 pm 
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Zac_Attack wrote:
IMO it all went to hell when Wotc_Erik/c left. I think he really had a passion for this game and more the RPG. I think Gleemax was the worst thing WOTC could have done to us SWM players. I also think that we are missing something I mean did anyone notice how Erik/c posted some stuff about the set and then all of a sudden he is leaving to work at EA? Seems like a little more than a coincidence. And Rob never posts there anymore the Bothan Transmissions were fun and we don't get any of that. Heck I wonder if we will even get a Christmas preview (Last years was Luke COTF and Rob posted a pic and full stats on Christmas Day) this year. Well maybe I'm being paranoid but thats just my $0.02.


Wow, very well said. I completely agree. Wotc_Erik was cool, it seemed ike he actually cared. Gleemax is just evil, evil, evil. Gleemax is so idiotic. GRRR stupid Gleemax... I'm sure you can guess that I am not a fan of Gleemax. Wizards need to get their game back, they're losing it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:11 pm 
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I love WOTC's ignore list. I find I am not missing out much on things from those on it. I should count to see how many are on it.

And for those that are complaining about WOTC moderation. Spend a few seconds on the Wizkids board. Heck, even the Realms. Favoring SWM over Clix was a warnable offense.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:14 pm 
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dnemiller wrote:
On the subject of getting as big as Wizards.... No we will not get as big as Wizards just because I will never focus any part of the site to Dreamblade or other games like that.... So that would be impossible.... So dont be waiting for me start a Magic the Gathering subforum....


Dammit! And I had this whole big pitch ready too... :P

Regarding some of the other comments about this issue, this is something that I have been trying to tackle head on for a long time, longer than most people know about.

I have never had any qualms about PMing a Wizo to seek an explanation for a ludicrous decision being made. There are all sorts of instances of double-standards and confusing decision-making, and it just keeps getting worse. At this point, the Wizos are spending most of their time just trying to appease people who take a moment to "report this post." It is so out of hand, there just is no common sense or reason applied to any of the actions being taken.

I love where Bill pointed out that "bumping" isn't mentioned in the CoC. Then again, 99% of the crap the Wizos do isn't either. But there's this clause, you see, in the CoC that is supposed to serve as a catch-all. Ridiculous.

As far as Rob or any of the other designers ever coming here, may as well forget about it ever happening. The way things are going, I'd be surprised if Rob is even with the company by the end of next year (not that they need him very much at this point, but that is a discussion for another time).

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:45 pm 
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i have no love for robs designing or his designing team either, but lets not dwell on the negative.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Sithborg wrote:
Spend a few seconds on the Wizkids board. Heck, even the Realms. Favoring SWM over Clix was a warnable offense.

Actually it's a banable offense on MWrealms and WK forums. Yep, I've been banned from both. :twisted:

How long before my rude posts end my time here? Okay, maybe not.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:50 pm 
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Engineer wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
Spend a few seconds on the Wizkids board. Heck, even the Realms. Favoring SWM over Clix was a warnable offense.

Actually it's a banable offense on MWrealms and WK forums. Yep, I've been banned from both. :twisted:

How long before my rude posts end my time here? Okay, maybe not.


You get banned for admitting you like SWM more than Clix? Thats really stupid, everyone should be allowed to state their opinion.


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