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 Post subject: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:52 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Been a while since I've been around these parts, so do bear with me :)

This is something I saw happening while playing another game - an online game. It was very disheartening, to say the least, and so... I'm mentioning it here, in the hopes that maybe by spreading the word, more people could work against it.

First, a little introduction so you won't get lost when following this little discourse; I was in a 'discussion' with maybe five other online gamers on the topic of forfeiting matches when it hit me that more and more people are using the anonymity offered by the internet as a means of being horribly rude and going against everything that sportsmanship stands for.

It might be a tad long, but all I'll say is that the length is actually intentional to an extent :P Has to do with one of my other gripes regarding the present state of public education, LOL

* Ragequitters = People who just leave an online game because they're losing (usually will stay to finish you off if they're winning).
* Other alien jargon would be Pokemon-related, but I've elaborated on my points.

---

Spoiler: show
Before I go on with the actual content of this topic, let me make a disclaimer - I am no saint by most accounts, but I do try to practice basic courtesy and sportsmanship when I am competing against others.

This post is also not intended to provoke others or point fingers - it is merely an account of my observations, and so please keep that in mind if you find yourself wanting to dig out a bazooka or something to deal with me.

And this is in the Game Corner because well... it's online gaming being discussed here.

---

I was on PO today (nothing new...) and happened to be at the PokeBattleCenter. In the main chat, I chanced upon a discussion regarding ragequitters and fast forfeiters, which caught my interest. After following it for a while, I decided to chip in a little.

It was not the urge to criticize the ragequitters that started it - rather, it was because I noticed the members of the discussion seemed to think that just quitting matches whenever they felt like it was acceptable.

So I just asked them if they ever spared a thought for the politeness of such actions. Obviously, I was promptly labeled as a baby and told to take it easy.

Now, this is something I simply cannot do.

Maybe now I should share a little about my real self. While I am spending most of my time pursuing my Bachelors degree, I do have some spare time to play with. Aside from online gaming, I am involved also in some tutoring at high school level (also college level for a brief stretch this year). If the opportunity presents itself, I also go back to my high school to help out with my old scout troop - some of the present senior scouts are sadly incompetent to the point that they cannot even teach their juniors a basic reef knot (for those who didn't have the chance to learn some knots, a reef knot is among the simplest of knots).

One thing I try to teach my students and junior scouts is to respect others - it was one thing we had drilled into our skulls when I myself was a junior in high school. It is one thing to playfully use vulgar language on a friend, and another to blatantly curse someone's mother to their face. Likewise, when competing, one should always respect one's opponent.

Really, since when was it acceptable for people to just walk out of a competition/game/match just like that? Even if you wanted to do so, would giving your opponent a 'good game' or something equivalent be too much to ask for? Similarly for forfeiting because there isn't a point to the match anymore - say you're facing a shedinja with no moves that can kill it. Would it be that tedious and/or awful to type a 'I have no way to kill that thing', or thank your opponent for the match before forfeiting?

In chess matches, I've seen players gently tipping over their king when they concede a match, and offering a handshake to their opponent. What's there to lose by doing the online equivalent?

Always keep in mind that when you start a match with someone, you've already taken some of their time - and that's something that no one can ever reclaim. You might say "But it's just a few seconds/minutes!" but remember that many grains of sand a mountain make. And since most people play online games to unwind, you might have just made someone's day a whole lot shittier by quitting a match just like that.

-

That's it for the topic of ragequitting and forfeiting. Now I'd like to touch on what's probably the more hopeless cause - trash talking.

It is one thing to argue with someone and insult them - personal vendettas tend to move beyond the realm of manners, for the most part. But to outright trash talk an opponent is nothing short of bad manners. So what if your opponent wants to run a cliched, overused team? So what if they use move-sets that they like but which aren't top-tier competitive? Freedom of expression should extend to online gaming also, and so gamers should not talk down to an opponent like that. So what if you cannot see the logic in your opponent's team - they might have some train of thought which never occurred to others.

A simple analogy could be made using university-level mathematics for those who are unfamiliar with its theorems and axioms - it would appear to be as alien as a foreign language to the uninitiated, but to a student majoring in maths, it would probably be as clear as daylight.

I've actually seen a match where someone ran a whimsicott, chansey (Eviolite, obviously), and blissey against a ghost monotype team. Obviously, that was match-up that was bad beyond description, but the non-ghost dude still persisted in trash-talking the ghost monotype player as if there was no tomorrow. He did win, and called his opponent a noob - the monotype player was hardly a noob if you ask me, given that the match went 6-5 despite the ghosts' disadvantage.

---

Now, the responses to my arguments in the aforementioned discussion were obviously negative. I was told that "You need to get your priorities in life right", that "QUITTING IS NOT A F****** HONOR THING" and that "You are looking too far into things".

Let's not even touch the topic of honor - whatever happened to basic courtesy and manners? If manners and self-conduct are not to be prioritized, then just what the hell should we concern ourselves with? If you say 'survival' or something like that, let it be made known that even the garbagemen over here are a polite bunch that always have a smile and cheerful greeting for those whose trash they collect.

I'm going to assume that most people on PO are young or young-ish, and that we all have a decent number of years ahead of us (barring accidents). It stands to reason then that this problem would only worsen over time if left unaddressed.

Maybe I'm being old-fashioned. Maybe my time in the scouts and high school was different from what goes on nowadays - and it hasn't even been ten years (but then again, the world is progressing at a breakneck pace, so that's not unexpected). Maybe I'm holding on to a set of obsolete principles that no longer have a place in today's online scene. At the risk of sounding like I make racial stereotypes, maybe it's my Asian heritage that causes this 'baby' behavior.

For the record, they finally backed off when I resignedly stated that I might be a dinosaur who had no place in the world of online gaming anymore.

Now, some of you might agree with them, but hear me when I say this - the internet should NOT be a domain devoid of courtesy. Anonymity is not an excuse for bad conduct. If moderators on the gaming servers can kick/ban people for typing in all uppercase letters, then I don't see why there's such an opposition against the idea of trying to maintain basic courtesies online. This rudeness is probably the root cause for people going all rage-like on the servers to begin with, so maybe some thought should be spared for this matter.

Call me immature for not tolerating the internet's nonsense if you may, but there are just some things in life that should not be compromised. If these people are so adamant on defending their rights as enshrined in the Constitution, then I don't see why they cannot try to defend what's LEFT of humanity in this rotting society.

Yes, I am a believer in the saying 'progress has enriched the lives of mankind, but destroyed a large portion of man's humanity'. Call me a nihilist, anarchist, or whatever, but... this is just wrong. I do try to uphold the principles which I was taught to value, and in doing so maybe I'm swimming against the current.

Is it too much to hope that one's actions would eventually make a difference in a matter such as this?

I once wanted to be a teacher, but if this is how things will continue to play out in the future, I'm glad that I ended up majoring in optometry.

I tip my hat to you if you're actually reading this line, and more so if you actually give a damn about what has been said.

Either way, thank you for your time.


---

Really, one of the reasons why I stayed in SWM was because of the decent people in the game. Alas, looks like once anonymity is included in the equation, things are on a whole new level (for the online game, not SWM).


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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:27 pm 
Death Star Designers
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MasterShaper wrote:
Really, one of the reasons why I stayed in SWM was because of the decent people in the game. Alas, looks like once anonymity is included in the equation, things are on a whole new level (for the online game, not SWM).


Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Didn't see any MDB outbreaks on Bloomilk, did you? The internet is still the internet, and we have been trying to squash our own little troll for over 2 years now.

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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:57 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Sithborg wrote:
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Didn't see any MDB outbreaks on Bloomilk, did you? The internet is still the internet, and we have been trying to squash our own little troll for over 2 years now.


As I've said, I haven't been round these parts in a bit :P


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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:40 am 
Droid Army Commander
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I've noticed this same trend on Vassal. Sometimes I just want to play a game, and there are guys I don't know that are looking for a game, so i decide to start a game with them. I ask them to how competitive they want to play. They say to play competitive, so I play competitive. I bring a good squad that I have a lot of experience playing. The other guy isn't as experircenced and and promptly starts losing his main minis rather quickly due to bad placement and bad squad building (one guy didn't even put in any uggies in his squad). Now, I always like to give less experienced players advice on how to improve on their playing because it took me a while to get used to Vassal and to get good at the game. People shared tips with me and I feel that I should in turn help others. Well, at this point (after they have lost one or two of thier good peices and I have told them what lead to that happening and how to prevent that in the future) they promptly leave the game without a word, leaving me in the room alone and being a little angry at the abrupt rudeness of just leaving without a word. The least they could say is they forfiet, but no, they just leave you there for 15 minutes or so wondering if something happened to their computer and that is the reason they haven't returned to the game to finish it. I am just about to the point of not even playing games against people i don't know, because lately this is what happens a lot. People get mad and leave, and its really bad manners. So yes, I have noticed some ragequtters on Vassal, and it is very sad that the younger players don't take the opportunity to learn from their mistakes and improve their game. In their mind they have to win all the time. The truth is, you don't win all the time and that you can learn a lot from a loss. If i'm playing online against someone, I'm going to give them a challenge, cause if I don't it is an insult to the other player that I take my game down a notch.

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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:44 am 
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That would be John Gabriel's Greater Internet ****wad theory: Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total ****wad


This is a reason that I'm not a huge fan of playing games online, and why I rarely play with strangers on Vassal.

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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:47 am 
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Yes, trash talking online is stupid. In person, as long as it is good natured, I think is fine most of the time.

As for ragequitting, I dont really approve, and you give a good arguement against it with the 'makes a mountain' comment, but to play devil's advocate, it is the players right to stop playing when they want. Yes, they did start a game, but if the game is no longer fun for them, why should they go out of their way to continue something that is now causing more annoycance and stress, than fun and stress-relief? Why make a mountain for themselves out of their own wasted time?

It may not be courteous to quit just cause you are losing, but you shouldnt be obligated to continue wasting your own time so someone else can have fun and relax. Some other opponent will come along for them to play. Theyll be fine.

Edit: In light of obikenobi's post, I agree they ought to at least acknowledge their are quitting. Just leaving isnt right.

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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:32 am 
Sith Apprentice
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What's even worse is when it happens in person...had a guy get up, grab his stuff and just walk off once because he lost his vader to a lucky crit by an uggie on an aoo while he was trying to get to my main fig to finish him off.

As far as vassal, when do ppl play? It seems like anytime I try to get on nobody is on anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Raylinthegreat wrote:
What's even worse is when it happens in person...had a guy get up, grab his stuff and just walk off once because he lost his vader to a lucky crit by an uggie on an aoo while he was trying to get to my main fig to finish him off.

As far as vassal, when do ppl play? It seems like anytime I try to get on nobody is on anymore.


I heard about a guy I knew who, first round, saw who he was paired against, dropped and went outside to throw his dice over the roof.

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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:31 pm 
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I seen this happen more than once in our lsg when certain people were matched up against Dean. Then again, Dean could bring in a uggie army just to mess around and still end up winning about 99% of the time there. It was starting to get interesting just seeing what junk army would work for him from week to week. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Something to think about.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:05 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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@ Disturbed1 - It wasn't the ragequitting that got me thinking, haha :D It was the fact that people just quit like that...

As much as it is your right as a gamer to stop playing if you feel like it, do remember that you might have taken up your opponent's time for a match that ended up going nowhere.

After all, I'm sure that if you told them that you wanted to concede the match, they'd probably be happy to let you do so :P


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