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 Post subject: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:21 pm 
One of The Ones
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By "it" I mean stay in business?

The problems with SWM aside, I've been thinking about this for the last few days. They have spent (read: wasted) so much money on games that failed, have had such high turnover rates, so many cancelled contracts, and taken an overall stance of disregard for their customer base to the point that they are now basically a company with only one, possibly two real products. They even cut loose several programs in which a group of dedicated volunteers took nothing more than product as the compensation for helping WotC pick up customers! All of that might be fine for a place like where I work, in a small community with a very localized customer base, but as a national industry, that just doesn't fly.

What got me on this subject was a few days ago I decided to download Magic Online onto my laptop. I have an account with some older cards in it, and I want to sell them while they are still worth something. However, it took THREE DAYS just to download the program (it was running SO SLOW that it was actual bogging down my entire network!!), and then when I got up this morning to find it had finally finished (I ended up doing it overnight, and even with 50% complete, it still took 3 hours), I still have to install it. I clicked install, but with a bar that stretched across the 17" screen, it barely moved 1/10 of an inch in 6 minutes. I just chuckled to myself at the insanity of the idea of wanting to access anything WotC-related - regardless of the reason - and I hit cancel because i had no intention of leaving the laptop running all day while I was at work.

The thing about it that I find the funniest is the fact that World of Warcraft has had much larger download files than MODO (or MTGO for newer players), and has taken half as long to finish. About the only thing that ever takes more than one hour is the new expansion, which is a purchased product - NOT a download patch or file. And WoW is 10000 times more complex than MTGO. Or at least, it should be. I guess the programming code is what separates the men from the boys, so to speak.

So, as I was hitting the cancel button and marveling in amazement at the lunacy of it all, I just wondered aloud, "how the heck does a company like this stay in business?" Anyone out there have any ideas? And don't say "Hasbro" because IMO - which is an educated one - its their interference with WotC that created this mess.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:01 pm 
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Miracles?

I don't know if anyone can ever answer that question, but Wizards seems to becoming more of a business unit of Hasbro than a wholly owned sub-sid. Magic has a large following still and they are pumping out product to no end. My guess is that is probably the only way, if it's not Hasbro floating them cash to operate. I imagine at some point in time we will see Wizards roll into the Hasbro and no longer be independent as a further cost cutting measure.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:44 pm 
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All of their owners are independently wealthy, and like John Hammond in Jurassic Park, can afford to sink massive amounts of money into something without any profit whatsoever. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:54 pm 
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As Engineer and I discussed at Kokomo, after looking at some professional printers The amount that the make on selling MTG cards is unbelievable. He can give you numbers, but I would venture to guess that a pack of MTG cost them maybe 15 cents to print and package.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:46 pm 
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As time goes on, all gravy trains end. I'm still shocked that WK train lasted as long as it did.


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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:01 pm 
One of The Ones
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LESHIPPY wrote:
As Engineer and I discussed at Kokomo, after looking at some professional printers The amount that the make on selling MTG cards is unbelievable. He can give you numbers, but I would venture to guess that a pack of MTG cost them maybe 15 cents to print and package.


The cardboard print, probably true - but when you couple in their oversized, overpaid staff who work specifically on Magic, that price goes way, way up.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:30 am 
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http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... nis_either

LOL. Seriously, it is becoming rather obvious that WOTC is having trouble maintaining their role as "industry leader". It will be interesting to see what else happens to them this year.

EDIT: Oops. Just another reason not to go to WOTC, don't know when you are in posting mode...

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Last edited by Sithborg on Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:46 am 
One of The Ones
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Broken link, can you summarize?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. Lol, yeah this has been a long time coming. WotC will probably shutter its doors by the end of the year.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:49 am 
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Fixed. Sorry about that.

D&D Minis is ending. A&A has to be cut soon.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:01 am 
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Sithborg wrote:
Fixed. Sorry about that.

D&D Minis is ending. A&A has to be cut soon.


Yeah that is exactly what that says. It doesn't say they are discontinuing DDM. It says they are abandoning their plastic miniatures line ventures.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:07 am 
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Huh. Funny how they don't mention Axis & Allies. But you are right.

Decipher flashbacks, man. The writing is on the wall. At least it came out that Decipher was dealing with a HUUUGE ebezelement issue. Wonder what WOTC is having problems with.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:07 am 
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Being a Magic player as well as SWminis I can say that moe poeple are playin Magic than ever. We have 4 Friday Night Magic tourneys running with in 30 mins of Wichita and the markets in Tulsa and KC are double and triple the size. Star City Games has a series that is almost as good as Wizards Pro Tour so you can make $$$$ by playing. As long as WotC has Magic it'll be in business.


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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:21 am 
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DarthEwokFett wrote:
Being a Magic player as well as SWminis I can say that moe poeple are playin Magic than ever. We have 4 Friday Night Magic tourneys running with in 30 mins of Wichita and the markets in Tulsa and KC are double and triple the size. Star City Games has a series that is almost as good as Wizards Pro Tour so you can make $$$$ by playing. As long as WotC has Magic it'll be in business.


Unfortunately, that is not exactly true. The correct statement would be as "long as Hasbro decides to keep the brand WotC will be in business". SWM's was cut not because WotC wasn't making a profit, but because of other factors. The success of Magic may or may not have an overall impact on Hasbro's decision. Seldom do these things work that way in business. Large companies buy smaller one's for a variety of reasons. One of the most common being the ability to hide debt and create tax loophole "losses". There are plenty of others, and the only safe things to say is WotC will be around as long as they meet the desire that Hasbro has for owning it :)

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:28 am 
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Upon further reading, D&D has been getting some heavy cutbacks. Cancelled books and the minis. Cut content. Yes, Magic may still be big, but WOTC as a WHOLE isn't looking to be in such good shape. One of their major brands is doing well (though, even Magic has had a few things cut), but the other half doesn't look as good. WOTC has stated their core brands as Magic and D&D, and D&D apparently doesn't look so hot right now.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:39 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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Let's be brutaly honest that if your a die hard SWmini's player you do feel slighted by WotC no matter what and rightfully so. I love the game and wish it was like it was 3 years ago. Upperdeck had a great game called VS (if you have any you want to get rid of let me know) that was dropped soon after the creatation of the WOW card game. I will never buy another card game they produce for the same reason as most on this forum feel about WotC.


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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:31 pm 
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Well to be clear, my opinion of WotC has ZERO to do with the end result of SWM. Okay, maybe not zero, but it is not the focus of why I believe what I believe about WotC as a company. I used to be a delegate, a volunteer liaison between the company and the local stores. Over the three years I was in the program before they decided that despite the successfulness of it they could spend the money themselves in a better, more productive way, I watched as games came and went, and failed. I still have a ton of this old crap in my house. DuelMasters, Kids Next Door, Hecatomb, Magic, SWM, DDM, AAM, Betrayal at House on the Hill, Risk 2210, Risk GodStorm, etc. The list goes on and on and on. It's all one big experiment to them as they tried to recreate Richard Garfield's success with Magic in the mid-90's, and they don't know how to do it. So this is the end result. The company will die.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:20 am 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
The company will die.


Didn't they say that over a year ago? two years? three? :DSBoom:

Filled with some good points and some not so good points.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:23 am 
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Yep, people say it every year. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean those people were wrong. When you're on your deathbed, there's no telling how long you will live. But the people who come to see you know why they're there.

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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:34 am 
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Grand Moff Boris wrote:
Yep, people say it every year. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean those people were wrong. When you're on your deathbed, there's no telling how long you will live. But the people who come to see you know why they're there.


Well folks have been saying it since WotC started,picked up pokemon,droped pokemon,changed D&D,picked up and droped other games. its like they were doomed to failure. :lol:

If you clicked on the link to the thread over at WotC,i'm sure you'll notice one person who seems to suggest that WotC's D&D days are numbed to the point of that he seems to think that WotC would sell the IP to stay afloat O_o

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Things i've said in the past that got dismissed and now are being talked about:
restricting formats by set
Some chosing not to play the game if and when another company picks it up without the current mechanics


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 Post subject: Re: How does WotC do it?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:04 am 
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Well here there are about 5000 population, out of that 500 or more have been playing 3rd edition d&d. When they switched the format around for 4th, that number dropped all the way down to a dozen. It was the biggest game in the area, followed by swm, then magic...now there is only magic and its not doing to well.

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