17 base acts means with MTB you are at 22 acts tops. 21 once the game actually starts. Mace/Obi/Yobuck/etc do have the HP to eat a few bombs so I think you could even the field without too much problem if you really wanted to. And if you can get to and kill either Cad Bane or Nom then it definately starts to turn in your favor.

And if you bring MTB you didn't bring Momaw so rodian diplomat is relevant again.

Def could be an interesting and fun match to watch. Way to stressful to actually play out (esp if it is for a regional win).

Agreed.

I do think the statement "Actually my Mace/GOWK squad would've done just fine" is a little overstated at the least - it would be a very interesting match.

We have a guy who runs it locally, and on the rancor pit map it's a hard squad to beat. There's only one path to advance on and there's enough cover to make getting open shots on the cloaked bombs almost impossible. You pretty much just end up trading your figures for a couple bombs, which is a losing proposition. With the Yammosk and a Lobot the person playing it can usually counter any advantage you might have against it.

Ok, fair enough. I hadn't considered the Lobot wildcard. I was primarily thinking of the Stealth-negation. The Spit Poison factor would certainly be significant.

The thing is, my gameplan would be to keep most of my squad together, within 6 of the Diplomat at all times. Anything that comes close enough to Spit is also close enough to shoot (up to 5 targets per round with Rex and Fi and Spaarti, nevermind what Mace and GOWK take down), and no piece will do any explosion damage when I kill it with a jedi. So the offensive portion of Nom's CE is nerfed by a 5pt piece. lol

I think the real danger--as you said--would be the Spit Poison. I don't think I took that into account enough when I said my squad would do "just fine." As always, forcing your opponent to make saves is a powerful thing...and I've had plenty of games where my saves were awful! However, (assuming you won't generally move to attack until I'm out-activated) I think it's fairly safe to say that once a piece spits, it will die the next round. If that's true, then most of those spits need to stick, or else the tide can turn pretty quickly.

And I'm always up for a Vassal game. I wasn't thinking of this in terms of a "Vassal Challenge" at all...I was just trying to point out that a 5pt piece can create lots of trouble for this squad. It's impressive that the squad can still likely put up a good fight after losing its Super-Stealth advantage.

It definitely DOES cause a lot of trouble.

At first I was like, -oh crap, what WOULD I do here? But then I started to figure it out how I would at least give your squad a run for it's money.

You also have the dilema of who to put in front. If you put Obi in front, I stay exactly 6 away from Obi (thus at least 7 away from the diplomat) and spit poison. Then I still have super stealth and explode until you move the rodian in front. If you move the rodian in front, I can like get an angle to where I only see him, and spit or shoot him to death. (It's tricky on BOTH sides of this equation)

This other thing that this scenario made me think about made me realize I forgot something all day on Saturday. Nom Anor's gun now has poison. I didn't shoot often with him, but when I did I know I forgot they have to make the poison save.

So if Obi-Wan is in front I am also shooting him with Nom, for a possible 30 damage with no rerolls on either the soresu save or the poison save.

More Lobot reinforcement possibilities - Garindan and Wicket. Nom now hits for 50+10 posion - no rerolls on the save. And Wicket helps him hit.

Or I could go with a czerka, and give Nom Twin and Cad Jolt. So now that's twice the saves for Obi to make, do you reroll a failed jolt save or the damage save? At very least your FP would go quicker.

Anyway - just brainstorming options. I don't even think I'm gonna run this squad again, LOL. But choosing Lobot's reinforcements would be difficult. Sooo many options.

First question - why does everyone keep referring to this as Tim's squad?

I ran this squad last year (against a lobot infused meta) and did really well.

@ Audri - the first thing I thought after Lansing regional, was wow my Vong squad from last year would have done really well here. I played against lobot a lot last year and only ever had a real problem when I had to play lobot and was outactived (I outactivated most squads last year).

@ Trevor - the diplomat can cause issues but I think that map roll is also a huge roll for the game. I'm not sure what map you played but if you had to play on asteroid base it would help me against your stratagys. If you move up the diplomat with GOWK and leave the diplomat in front of GOWK, then I will be able to get los on your diplomat to shoot him with bane. It's a double edged sword, that 5 pnt piece can screw things up for me but its also a 20 hp piece that is the only counter you have against me. I'm not saying that you wouldn't be able to beat me (or Tim) with your squad as you are a great player who is in the HoF.
But really, where was the headhunter trophy last year, as I beat a number of HoF'ers last year with this squad and had Bill say that if he faced me in the finals at gen con that he would have just gave me the win cause he couldn't beat me and my squad with his.

@ Grahm - is it really Tim who screwed up the meta and made it even more confusing if he played my squad that I brought with me because I was the one that reacted to the meta as I saw it. You also said that Tim and his speeders would have got eaten alive in your meta so as a way to add more fuel to the fire. Your OR squad would have gotten crushed against my Vong.

As it was pointed out before, this meta is so open right now that it is going to come down to matchups.

There seems to be a lot of rock/paper/scissors going on.

Jake's Vong squad would donkey stomp Graham's Regional Champ OR squad.

Or at least on paper.

Daniel's NR squad has disruptive, but if he points the droids in front, they die instantly to bane. If he puts the droids behind Corran, the vong stay out of the droids range and spit Corran to death. It's certainly a game, but I'd say in equal player's hands the vong win 6 or 7 out of 10.

Once again - on paper

But there have been a lot of surprises, and match-ups are key. There have also been a lot of misconceptions on how match-ups would pan out. Even good players have looked at certain squads and not understood how good it really is, or what all it can compete with. I know I am guilty of that, but I also feel the other side where I am like - Really? I honestly think my Imp Speeders would tear apart Week's Republic Commando squad. But - he's a really good player, so it would certainly be a game.

Michigan had similar squad types in the top 4. Owensboro did as well to a certain extent (at least in the fact that it was more beatsticks, less glass cannons). Missouri had mostly Sith and OR - which is why the Vong excelled (Although the Mando match was very interesting.) I don't even know what to say about Portland - a lot of different factors made that outcome possible, and I would bet it would never happen again. BUT - maybe that's me being once again guilty of not seeing something's true power.

I think what seems to be happening more this year than ever before, is that squads have more than they first appear to have. And until we start having top level players playing vastly different squad types against each other, it will continue to be muddy.

I hate to say it but based on local play, Nom bombs is nearly the perfect squad. With the SS given by Nom your shooters become worthless. Follow that up with Force immunity and 20 auto damage your melee figures are trading 20+ pts generally for at the most 25 pts of workers.

There are some really obvious counters like It's a trap but with the proper tech none of the figures with that ability tend to last very long. Locally we have a player on something like a 30-1 run teching a Jawa Scavanger to get rid of any tredwells and with some angle work your Rodian Diplomats.

Take all this and add spit poison you have a squad that can really have an above 50/50 shot against most squads.

The Sith Trials.

And then there was one . . .


Only the Sith have yet to win a Regional Championship. Who will be the first to do it?

Rancor pit is death for vong what is he/she thinking.
It gets killed vs Arica and Lancer can do some deep strikes just that there are save spots.
There is like zero cover on that map?
Think map chose is not a good one there.

Yeah, that seems pretty likely. Honestly, I don't even know how I would have played against that, it's such a bad and weird matchup. Maybe... try to hold off contact as long as possible (two turns?), then race after Nom and Cad Bane (who are probably a million miles away)? It would be a really tedious game.

If I had Lobot, and depending on map, I could probably bring in a treadwell droid, set up shop in safe gambit (eg Ravaged Base), and then at least start trying to win the game. But that's kind of a lot of ifs.

Because Tim won a regional with it. Same reason that I get credited for Laura's Echani Handmaiden squad that I have piloted to 2 consecutive MI regional champs.

Ok, that's a fair way to look at it. Not right, but fair.
And to be honest he only ran that squad because of careful probing of his mind that I did. With my Sith sorcery and also thinking, I have had to play Tim in most regionals and fallen angel can beat My vong squad. Also it's a good squad and even if Tim lost to me, he should be able to guide it to another finals match-up against me.

But that is all beside the point because fallen angel failed epically and I never got to play Tim.

And however people want to look at, Tim and I know the truth, Just as you do with Laura's handmaiden squad.

Four regionals in and i'm still unconvinced of a dominant build. I think this could be a good thing come GenCon, perhaps a nice assortment of factions represented. But, as of right now, I'm leaning more to the belief of "regional" meta. We are mainly seeing how the local meta is played, albeit on a more competitive term, but local nonetheless. There are still more regionals to come, so perhaps we'll see the cream rise to the top. I'm just not sold that these winning squads are those. Yet.

Nom Bombs are good again?

Guess its time to sub in Null ARC Ordo over Atin.

So you have to drop 10 pts from your squad (gam bg? Figrin?) and now you have to replace turn to shoot one 4 pt bomb? And it replaces turn, and since Ordo doesn't have stealth as opposed to Atin, Cad shoots the crap outta him.

I don't think that change would make much difference in this matchup.

Ya if I let you shoot him. Cad is gonna be firing at the brick wall named Obi wan .

But seriously how often do you bring in a czerka? Twin for Nom and jolt for cad seems really handy. It's super useful for your squad because people don't want to rush you with your spit swarm.

Well then it's goal achieved. Obi takes all the spits, gets surrounded by bombs and at init they all go off and kill him. It's just not good odds for the Republic in this particular matchup. Other republic squads give it serious trouble. Skybuck is dangerous. Tow Yodabuck then run 26 and hit Nom for 20, take a few hits, swap in skywalker and finish Nom. Skywalker probably dies, but Yodabuck takes out the rest of the Vong, so even if cad finishes Yodabuck, you now out activate and still have r2 and swap. Rex should take out Cad easily.


As far as what to bring with Lobot, you should ask Jake. He ran this way more than I did. Sat was the first time I've ever run it. MTB + fodder is the way I always went. Always winning init is great, but a sure-fire bomb fuse is even better.

Theoretically the Czerka is good, but I would say only vs Never Tell Me the Odds.

I played against this Nom Bomb with Cad + Yomin all year last year. The squad I settled in on with a single lancer is a serious counter. Jake said he didn't think he could beat it. But then we both sucked at the GenCon World Championship, so we Meta'd ourselves into a corner.

Yeah, I think that's the thing: with Yobuck no longer being Tier 1 (see my post earlier in this thread), squads like this can really thrive again. If this squad does become more popular (as your Regional Winning squads often do, Tim), then perhaps we'll see more of Yobuck at Gencon again. It's a funny thing, this meta analysis.

However, I would not likely bring Yobuck anyway, since it has a couple of excellent matchups but many more difficult matchups.

Totally disagree. Yodabuck is top tier. Yodabuck will make the GenCon top 8.

It's insane nobody's played him. He's Soooo good.