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 Post subject: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:11 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Do we even have a meta anymore? Does anything make sense? Is it just too early to tell? Discuss!

So far the first FIVE regional-winning squads are

--Jason Kiernan (urbanjedi) at Lansing--
41 Atris
32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo)
66 Echani Handmaiden x3
21 General Veers
15 Jabba, Crime Lord
8 Mas Amedda
8 R7 Astromech Droid
6 Rodian Brute x2
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

and

--Graham Bingham at Owensboro--
65 Master Kavar
36 Atton "Jaq" Rand
33 Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
29 Carth Onasi, Old Republic Soldier
14 Old Republic Senator
8 R7 Astromech Droid
9 Mouse Droid x3
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

and

--Tim Ballard in Missouri--
54 Cad Bane
34 Nom Anor
27 Lobot
19 Yomin Carr
15 Yammosk War Coordinator
12 Advance Scout x2
36 Yuuzhan Vong Worker x9
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

and

--Han Taylor in Oregon(?)--
37 Cassus Fett
36 Bardan Jusik
24 Mandalorian Tactician
38 Mandalorian Scout x2
13 Czerka Scientist
12 Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer
11 Death Watch Saboteur
8 R4 Astromech Droid
5 Salacious Crumb
9 Mouse Droid x3
6 Ugnaught Demolitionist x2

and

--Josh Hinkel in WNY--
65 Mace Windu, Jedi Master
55 General Obi-Wan Kenobi
27 Lobot
23 Foul Moudama
16 Dr. Evazan, Galactic Criminal
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
5 Rodian Diplomat

The top eight squads so far consist of

Five Imperial (Echanis, three Weir squads, Lord Vader)
Three Mando (Scouts with either Jaster or Cassus; Deathwatch swarm)
Two NR (Corran Horn pilot mashup, Solo Charge)
Two OR (Kavar and shooters; Exile and shooters)
Two Republic (GOWK with commandos, GOWK and Mace)
Three Vong (1 bomb, 2 quite different YVJH squads)
Two Sith (Zannah and Revan both times)
One Rebel(?)

Updated with as much as I know from the WNY regional. I never would have guessed that Dr. Evazan would be vital tech in a regional-winning squad.

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Last edited by greentime on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:55 am 
Warmaster
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Having attended both regionals so far I think it came down to a style of play. Lansing was full of techy and at times rather intricate squads. On the other hand Owensboro was much more of big guns, big sticks, big smash. This happens in most games as an area or areas tend to have a general feel about them.

Here in my own area were a cross of big hitters with a Supersize order of total Jank. I feel much more comfy with the more offense the better and when I was building my squad I didn't use many of the tech pieces that Aaron Cook elected to use in his Jaster Mando build.

I will say we do have a meta. Awsomely enough it is a very diverse one that can reflect all the different styles of the players. I think what we have seen do well in each regional is something that would be viable if played properly and if it was played in other regionals. Just need to match the squad with the proper play styled owner.

As far as seeing more Bastilla, I didn't go back to her for Owensboro because I didn't feel that she is all that strong in this meta. In Imperial you have Thrawn or Palleon bubble killing her ability as well as Jaster bringing in Mando Scientist to continue the barrage with twin. She does effect Seps and Rebel strongly but they haven't made an appearance anywhere near top 4 yet. Matter of fact the only reason Seps have shown up is because of two of my local players. Take all this and add it to the fact that Vong just laugh at the OR overall the risk/reward didn't seem worth it to me.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:30 pm 
Grand Admiral
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greentime wrote:
I am surprised to not see more Bastilla, which ought to be the natural counter to cannons (although Pellaeon/GA Thrawn throws a huge wrinkle into that plan!), and I am also surprised to see that swarms haven't come back. In two regionals so far we have one lancer and ZERO Yobuck squads. No Yobuck! A well-run swarm should be able to slaughter Mace as well as give most cannon squads fits, unless you're running Tim's bizarre version. So far out of about 40 regional squads there are just three I count that would easily beat a swarm (lancer, Corran, speederbike). And a new swarm, built around Red Squadron Aces or Defel Pirates could even give those a game.


I totally agree with everything you said. I think there are two reasons there isn't much Yobuck:
i) There are a couple of well-established squads (Solo Charge, Skybuck, maybe Lancer too) that everyone knows are good, but haven't been run much as people try new stuff. Last year, there wasn't much Yobuck at Regionals, but it did really well at GenCon (3 in the top 8, I think).
ii) Maybe there are a few more counters around. Some of the low hp CE squads have some defense against Yobuck, like death shots, self-destruct, or Storm Commandos with Shields 2. While heavy rock squads can also be tough, especially if there is more than one big, hard to kill piece.

But there's still no reason that it can't do well with a good player.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:26 pm 
Black Sun Thug
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SPEAKING of Yobuck lmao its such a coincidence he was mentioned lol I ran a squad locally this last friday that did fairly well even though i lost. It ran..

General Skywalker 47
Yobuck 51
2x Clone trooper on speeder 56
Clone Commander Bacara 23
mas 8
doombot 9
2x uggie 6

It was a total BLAST to play this squad lol it almost wiped the board with Vong Bombs lol (that player has been on a 6 week win streak lol i tried real hard) you have Skyguy doin his thing on top of givin yobuck and my bikes momentum ontop of bacara givin the troopers plus ten damage against adjacents lol first game was vong and it was CLOSE second game my dice turned on me and thrid game i really just threw it cuz i was tired and didnt care enough to try since i could have strafed the guy to death lol (Dodonna bs with fodder acts ) yea would raped it just didnt care too lol but point being I busted out Yobuck for some runaway fun lol


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:29 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Keep in mind, there are a LOT of counters to the Mice Drop. Wuher, Momaw Nadon, the Quednak, pretty much every faction has a way to limit the number of Mice you bring or to quickly decimate your Mice swarm.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:00 pm 
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I won't doubt that Yobuck is good...hey, Skybuck is probably my favorite all-time squad! But it's also lost a step or two with the last 2 V-Sets. Squads are bringing less activations now (woohoo!), which means there are less scrubs for Yoda to kill in one hit. That means Yoda runs in to hit something for 30 (maybe 60 if you can set it up right), and then either leaves a Brute behind, or else goes for a big kill with Ani or Dash/Rex. But if Yoda isn't killing pieces on his gallop, then the Republic player quickly falls behind...not just in points, but also in his ability to make stuff happen. Don't get me wrong, Yoda still has some excellent matchups...he just has a bunch more bad matchups now too. The massive movement-breaking that we've come to know and love is still good...but other parts of the squad have lost ground.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:31 pm 
Death Star Designers
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Yeah, 51 pts is a lot for a glorified scrub killer, in an enviroment where massive activations are no longer an issue. The Quednak doesn't face the same pressure to kill because it is only 20 pts. There are interesting things developing in the meta.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:07 pm 
THE Customist
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Location: Chicago
Northwest results:

21st April. Portland, Oregon. 12 players.

Squads:
3 Imperial
3 Republic
2 Yuuzhan Vong
2 Mando
1 New Republic
1 Rebel

Maps:
3 Rancor Pen
3 Muunilinst
2 Cargo Docks
1 Offworld Shipping
1 Theed
1 Jabba's Palace
1 (I think it's Asteroid)

Winner:
Han Taylor, 4-0
Map: Rancor Pen
Squad: New Mandos on the Block
Cassus Fett
Bardan Jusik
M. Tactician
M. Scout x2
Czerka Scientist
M. CIO
Death Watch Saboteur
R4 Astromech
Salacious Crumb
Mouse Droid x3
Ug Demo x2

Top Four:
Mando
Yuuzhan Vong
Yuuzhan Vong
Rebel (bye)


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:51 pm 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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I'll keep my comments a little bit shorter this time. First, I think Tim's squad is a very interesting reaction to the meta as we had seen it so far. Hardly anyone plays Lobot, so Nom Bombs don't have to worry about the treadwell droid; hardly anyone is playing high activations, so his Vong squad would get to go last almost every time. It's a good answer to GOWK, Bastila, and cannon squads. I don't think Mace would do too great against it either.

I never play Mandos, so I am not the best person to comment on Han's squad. I do think there is some interesting synergy in there, as well as a surprising amount of tech. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.

So far heavy shooting seems to be the way to go, taking eight out of 15 (we're missing one from PAC-10 land) top-four slots so far by my count. And I'd say that five or six of those squads were pretty much pure cannons. Very interesting so far. There's a lot of Bastila, but that isn't stopping people from playing cannon squads, much less anything else. I expect that someone is going to pick up the lancer again before the season ends.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:37 pm 
Death Star Designers
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greentime wrote:
I never play Mandos, so I am not the best person to comment on Han's squad. I do think there is some interesting synergy in there, as well as a surprising amount of tech. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one.


After playing Mandos in 2 years at regionals I think the main factor with Mandos is that many players do not anticipate playing against them. Also many people may not be used to the abilities of the new mandos. Both Ben and Tim had to ask what abilites and CE's my Mandos had at the MO regional.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:44 pm 
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I really don't think the squads seen this past weekend are really going to have a strong effect on the meta on the overall scene. Both of the events really had a strong local flavor. For example if Tim would have played the Nom Bomb squad in Lansing the heavy showing of Lobots would have given many of the Lansing squads a chance. Also how would Nom Bomb deal with the heavy presence of stealth and Super stealth since that would take a good deal of punch away from Cad Bane.

No offense to either winner of the Portland or MO. regionals but I think their squads were more opportunistic of the local feel of the event rather then something that will shape the current Meta.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:33 pm 
Death Star Designers
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audrisampson wrote:
I really don't think the squads seen this past weekend are really going to have a strong effect on the meta on the overall scene. Both of the events really had a strong local flavor. For example if Tim would have played the Nom Bomb squad in Lansing the heavy showing of Lobots would have given many of the Lansing squads a chance. Also how would Nom Bomb deal with the heavy presence of stealth and Super stealth since that would take a good deal of punch away from Cad Bane.

No offense to either winner of the Portland or MO. regionals but I think their squads were more opportunistic of the local feel of the event rather then something that will shape the current Meta.


I played against Tim with 9 of my Mandos having cloaked and it really did not help me. The reason being that he out activated me by several pieces and was able to base my pieces and make a trade that favored him by at least 6 points. He also had enough pieces that when he lost one or two to kill a pieces. Also he used Cad to kill pieces that I moved up when he could move him and get an open shot and otherwise left him back.

I don't think that his squad would do as well at a bigger tournament but it is a very good squad and would be very hard to beat.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:00 pm 
Warmaster
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Dracon2 wrote:
audrisampson wrote:
I really don't think the squads seen this past weekend are really going to have a strong effect on the meta on the overall scene. Both of the events really had a strong local flavor. For example if Tim would have played the Nom Bomb squad in Lansing the heavy showing of Lobots would have given many of the Lansing squads a chance. Also how would Nom Bomb deal with the heavy presence of stealth and Super stealth since that would take a good deal of punch away from Cad Bane.

No offense to either winner of the Portland or MO. regionals but I think their squads were more opportunistic of the local feel of the event rather then something that will shape the current Meta.


I played against Tim with 9 of my Mandos having cloaked and it really did not help me. The reason being that he out activated me by several pieces and was able to base my pieces and make a trade that favored him by at least 6 points. He also had enough pieces that when he lost one or two to kill a pieces. Also he used Cad to kill pieces that I moved up when he could move him and get an open shot and otherwise left him back.

I don't think that his squad would do as well at a bigger tournament but it is a very good squad and would be very hard to beat.


I think many things depend on the pilot of the squad. In this case we have Tim who is one of the strongest players in SWM history. However a meta is developed by many players playing the same squad or at least the same style of squad. What would have been the outcome of your game if lets say if "average player" played the squad in your game. I don't think it would have been the same.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:17 am 
Imperial Dignitaries
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greentime wrote:
I'll keep my comments a little bit shorter this time. First, I think Tim's squad is a very interesting reaction to the meta as we had seen it so far. Hardly anyone plays Lobot, so Nom Bombs don't have to worry about the treadwell droid; hardly anyone is playing high activations, so his Vong squad would get to go last almost every time. It's a good answer to GOWK, Bastila, and cannon squads. I don't think Mace would do too great against it either.

Actually my Mace/GOWK squad would've done just fine:

--This Party's Over--
65 Mace Windu, Legacy of the Light Side
55 General Obi-Wan Kenobi
33 Captain Rex
25 Republic Commando Fi
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
5 Rodian Diplomat
5 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist
3 Mouse Droid

(200pts. 8 activations)
The Rodian Diplomat completely neuters the Bombs' effectiveness with ItsaTrap; GOWK would walk beside the Rodian the whole time, to preserve Diplomat. Cad can shoot at GOWK all he wants. Meanwhile Mace and Rex can kill bombs and/or go after Cad when the timing is right. Other than horrible SSM/Mettle rolls against Cad's shots, I'm not sure how the Republic squad could lose this match when played with a clear strategy. I've said it many times before, but I think that the Rodian Diplomat should probably be in most Republic squads.

He's obviously no R2 Astromech, but he's a Caamasi Noble that removes Stealth. Now if we can just find a way to give him traps.... :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:19 pm 
Third Jedi from the Left
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thereisnotry wrote:
He's obviously no R2 Astromech, but he's a Caamasi Noble that removes Stealth. Now if we can just find a way to give him traps.... :twisted:


Well the Republic in general has no shortage of Senators and other politicians that could be made in new pieces........

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:08 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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hinkbert wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:
He's obviously no R2 Astromech, but he's a Caamasi Noble that removes Stealth. Now if we can just find a way to give him traps.... :twisted:


Well the Republic in general has no shortage of Senators and other politicians that could be made in new pieces........

Hehehe...I was just kidding, actually. A Diplomat with ItsaTrap is already powerful. But a Diplomat with Traps is far more powerful. Juno is valuable at 8 pts, and she usually dies just about immediately once she gets into combat. Cheap disruptive with the defenses of a Diplomat, on the other hand...yikes.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:18 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
greentime wrote:
I'll keep my comments a little bit shorter this time. First, I think Tim's squad is a very interesting reaction to the meta as we had seen it so far. Hardly anyone plays Lobot, so Nom Bombs don't have to worry about the treadwell droid; hardly anyone is playing high activations, so his Vong squad would get to go last almost every time. It's a good answer to GOWK, Bastila, and cannon squads. I don't think Mace would do too great against it either.

Actually my Mace/GOWK squad would've done just fine:

--This Party's Over--
65 Mace Windu, Legacy of the Light Side
55 General Obi-Wan Kenobi
33 Captain Rex
25 Republic Commando Fi
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
5 Rodian Diplomat
5 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist
3 Mouse Droid

(200pts. 8 activations)
The Rodian Diplomat completely neuters the Bombs' effectiveness with ItsaTrap; GOWK would walk beside the Rodian the whole time, to preserve Diplomat. Cad can shoot at GOWK all he wants. Meanwhile Mace and Rex can kill bombs and/or go after Cad when the timing is right. Other than horrible SSM/Mettle rolls against Cad's shots, I'm not sure how the Republic squad could lose this match when played with a clear strategy. I've said it many times before, but I think that the Rodian Diplomat should probably be in most Republic squads.

He's obviously no R2 Astromech, but he's a Caamasi Noble that removes Stealth. Now if we can just find a way to give him traps.... :twisted:



You forgot one thing - I have Lobot. I bring in Momaw Nadon. I out activate you by far. I run up end of round and bye-bye diplomat. My bombs easily take out Mace and Obi.

That aside I have spit poison x 14. No rerolls on those. Yeah - people just don't get how good this squad is by looking at it on paper.

Don't get me wrong, it's not an auto-win. Especially not in the hands of someone like Trevor, but I gotta say - advantage: Vong


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Except the rodian has 20 HP so unless you also win init then its a crap shoot again.

And if you run the MTB the other guy should be able to wait you out a bit for you and your activations to even out somewhat.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:32 pm 
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urbanjedi wrote:
Except the rodian has 20 HP so unless you also win init then its a crap shoot again.

And if you run the MTB the other guy should be able to wait you out a bit for you and your activations to even out somewhat.


I DID forget the rodian has 20 hp, that does make it a little harder.

But, again . . . spit poison x14.

And good luck waiting until the MTB makes 23 activations = 8 activations.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Regional Meta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Hmmm...do I smell a Vassal challenge brewing? :D


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