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 Post subject: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:31 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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Location: Yes, I am yet another Canadian. Keeping the game alive on life support in the GTA.
Final Four

1st. Luke Cook -YoBuck Killer
Lord Vader's Date
4-1

Map: Commander's Office

Lord Vader
Thrawn
Arica
Lobot
Admiral Ozzel
R7 Astromech
Mas Amedda
Salacious Crumb
Gran Raider
Rodian Brute


2nd . Eric Frost -Ruhk

3-2

Ganner's Banner

Map: Smuggler's Base

Kyle Katarn JBM
Mara Jade Jedi
Ganner Ryhsode
Dash Rendar RS
Jagged Fel
General Dodonna
R7 Astromech
Camaasi Noble
Mouse Droid
Ugnaught Demolitonist x 3


3rd. Trevor Payton thereisnotry

4-1

Skybuck

Map: Smuggler's Base

Yoda on Kybuck
General Skywalker
Dash Rendar Rebel Smuggler
Lobot
Captain Panaka
R2-D2 Astromech Droid
Mas Amedda
Gran Raider
Ugnaught Demolitionist

4th.
2-3
Neil McMillan

Commando Delta

Zuckuss Bounty Hunter
Han Solo Smuggler
Luke Skywalker Rebel Commando
Princess Leia
Rebel Commando Strike Leader
Elite Rebel Commando x 2
General Crix Madine
General Rieekan
R7 Astromech Droid
Mouse Droid

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:31 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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The rest of the squads

Gerry Russell -Darth Nader
2-1 5 pts

Serious Sidiousness

Map: Jabba's Palace

Darth Sidious
Sora Bulq
IG-Lancer Droid
Lobot
General Whorme Loathsome
IG-86 Assassin Droid
Gha Nacht
San Hill
Battle Droid Officer
Mouse Droid x 4


Ian Pearson
0-3 0 pts
Cad Stap Swap

Map: Rancor Pit

Cad Bane
Captain Panaka
Anakin on STAP
Qui Gon Jedi Trainer
Dark Woman
Kel Dor Bounty Hunter
Mas Amedda
Wicket
R2-D2 Astromech Droid
Rodian Diplomat


James Boyce
1-2 3pts
Mando Zuckuss

Map: Rancor Pen

Mandalore the Preserver
Zuckuss BH
Manalorian Tactician
Mandalorian Captain
Mandalorian Scout
Mandalorian Gunslinger
Mandalorian Gunsmith
Mouse Droid
Ugnaught Demolitionist x 2

Chris Cook
1-2 3pts
Revs Chicks

Map: Theed Palace

Darth Revan Sith Lord
Atris
Echani Handmaiden x 2
Sith Lord
R7 Astromech Droid
Gran Raider
Mouse Droid x 3
Rodian Brute
Ugnaught Demo x 2


Corey Budwine
1-2 2 pts
Mandos

Map: Commander's Office

Mandalore the Preserver
Mandalorian Quartermaster
Mandalorian Captain
Mandalorian Scout
Mandalorian Gunslinger
Mandalorian CIO
Mouse Droid x 3
Ugnaught Demo

Steve Nyenhuis
2-1 5 pts
Bastilla's Crew

Map: Commander's Office

Cad Bane
Zuckuss Bounty Hunter
Bastilla Shan JM
Jedi Healer
Antarian Ranger x 2
Correllian Pirate
Lobot CLO
Youngling
Ugnaught Demo
Mouse Droid

Don R5Don4
2-1 5 pts
Double D

Map: Rhen Var

Han Solo GH
Kyle Katarn CI
Mara Jade Jedi
Ganner
General D
R7 Astro
Mouse Droid
Ugnaught Demo x 3

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Last edited by R5Don4 on Sat May 28, 2011 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 6:31 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:15 pm 
Imperial Dignitaries
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As mentioned, my squad was Skybuck.
Map: Smuggler's Base

Yoda on Kybuck
General Skywalker
Dash Rendar Rebel Smuggler
Lobot
Captain Panaka
R2-D2 Astromech Droid
Mas Amedda
Gran Raider
Ugnaught Demolitionist

Round 1 vs Gerry Russell (Darth Nader), playing Serious Sidiousness
Map: Jabba's Palace

Darth Sidious
Sora Bulq
IG-Lancer Droid
Lobot
General Whorme Loathsome
IG-86 Assassin Droid
Gha Nacht
San Hill
Battle Droid Officer
Mouse Droid x 4

Gerry won the map roll, so we played on Jabba’s Palace. I chose the left side. Nothing significant happened in the first round, until Gerry pawned the lancer and then strafed my Panaka, Mas, and Lobot. He had expected to kill Lobot, but he forgot about Panaka’s BG ability, and Lobot lived. Gerry won the next init and could’ve strafed my figs again, but instead elected to fly 24 squares back home. I prevented that from working though, by running 16 with Yobuck and killing the lancer. Then during the next phase I towed Anakin up to go and kill the IG-86 droid; now Gerry’s only damage-dealing pieces were Sora Bulq and Sidious. After that, it was pretty much clean-up. 1-0


Round 2 vs Luke Cook (son of YoBuckKiller), playing Lord Vader’s Date
Map: Commander's Office

Lord Vader
Thrawn
Arica
Lobot
Admiral Ozzel
R7 Astromech
Mas Amedda
Salacious Crumb
Gran Raider
Rodian Brute

This game was insane. I won the map roll, so we played on Smuggler’s Base, and Luke chose the left side. In the first round, I got off a huge gallop with Yobuck, killing a grand total of 2 Grans (yay); then I swapped him for a Rodian. The problem was that Yobuck’s new position was within 24 squares of my opponent’s Amanin Scout...who proceeded to wheel 18 and turn into Lord Vader, who then Overwhelmingly Assaulted Yobuck (with a crit, no less) for 160 damage. :eek: At this point, I figured, “I’m screwed. But I’ll give it my best anyway.” So I proceeded to advance Dash forward (via the bottom corridor) and tow Anakin up through the gambit zone. Meanwhile, Luke was having Lord Vader go to town on Panaka and Lobot. I knew I was behind on points anyway, so I just had to take away LV’s support, or I’d never take him down. The next round, my Dash moved forward to take some shots...the first 2 killed Luke’s activated Ozzel, and now Dash needed two 5s to kill his un-activated Lobot...and I rolled a 3. :mad: That round I also towed Anakin up so that he could base Mas and Thrawn for a crucial kill. Mas crit on his aoo (30dmg), and so I thought, “Hey, cool...now I can djem-so him to death (momentum)” but I failed the save and the fprr. So I instead killed Mas with one attack and put 30dmg on Thrawn with the other. This was crucial, since it meant that Lord Vader was now stuck on the other side of the map, far from the rest of my pieces, which left Arica as the only real damage-dealer to protect Luke’s squishies. Arica moved in to attack Ani, and he took 20dmg more (down to 50 hp). Luke won the next init, of course, so Arica attacked Ani again, and hit both shots...and I failed my Deflect. I thought he was dead, but then I remembered that Vader’s CE was not in effect, since Mas was gone. So Ani survived with 10 hp! He killed Thrawn with a double attack, and Dash moved in to finish off Lobot and put some damage on Arica. At this point Luke’s Amanin scout could’ve killed Anakin (my dice were betraying me this game), but missed the attack. Dash killed Arica and the Amanin died, which left Luke with Lord Vader and his R7 droid, who were now coming toward me out of gambit. I was now in the lead for the first time in the game, but my Anakin was 10 hp away from death. His Vader was at 90 hp due to two successful momentum strikes from heroic scrubs. I won that initiative, and towed Dash into the top room/walkway and locked the door (didn’t want Vader to base them and kill them on init). Vader then moved forward toward Anakin. I tried for some more scrub heroics, but it was not meant to be. So I now had a crucial decision to make: I could move Anakin 8 squares to hit Vader for 60dmg, leaving him at 30 (and HOPE for init), or I could run 16 squares like a scared cat. I said, “Gotta do it for fun!” and moved in for the attacks. I figured that, even if Vader killed off Anakin the next round, Dash could possibly do the final 30dmg to him. As it turned out, though, I won the next init and Anakin hit both his attacks (needing 9s) by rolling two 16s to finish Lord Vader and earn a full victory. This was, far and away, one of the closest, most epic games I have played in a LONG time. Luke was pretty bummed, but as you can see from the first post in this thread, he recovered nicely afterward. ;) 2-0.

At this point we broke for lunch, after which Eric and I both knew we’d be playing each other; it ALWAYS happens. And yep, it happened again.

Round 3: Eric Frost (Ruhk), playing Ganner's Banner
Map: Smuggler's Base

Kyle Katarn JBM
Mara Jade Jedi
Ganner Ryhsode
Dash Rendar RS
Jagged Fel
General Dodonna
R7 Astromech
Camaasi Noble
Mouse Droid
Ugnaught Demolitonist x 3

This game was a chess match, with both of us trying to out-maneuver the other. Nothing happened in the first round (me on the left, Eric on the right), not even a single gallop, because Kyle and his mates were sticking in a fairly cohesive turtle shell, entry into which would spell suicide for Yobuck. And other than Eric killing a scrub that I had foolishly left for him, nothing happened in the second round either. But at the end of the second round, Eric’s damage dealers were advanced into the top room/corridor, while the rest of his pieces/scrubs were lagging behind. So in the third round, I got to finally make a significant gallop, which killed all/most of Eric’s fodder, as well as Dodonna. I now had the activation lead, and I ended up putting 50 damage on Mara, while still being able to keep Anakin protected and bodyguarded. The next round, Mara levitated in to Cunning-Assault Panaka, and rolled a crit, which meant that Anakin now took 30dmg (successful Deflect) rather than 0. By this point Mara was at 20hp, and she needed to die, or I’d lose the game. I was considering double-attacking with Anakin (needing 8s), but Eric had been too good with his Blocks so far, so I wisely chose to Push her to death. Later that round, my Dash took some shots on Eric’s Dash, and couldn’t roll above a 5 more than twice, so his Dash took 20dmg after a failed evade save. At this point Kyle (who had been tangling with Yobuck back on the other side of the wall) was unable to advance far enough to hurt Anakin. Yobuck charged in to put the last 50dmg on Eric’s Dash, which left Eric with Kyle (not in great position) and Ganner vs my Anakin, Dash, and Yobuck. At this point it was mostly just cleanup, but time was called. Eric has this annoying habit of beating me in tournaments, so I was lucky to pull this one out. 3-0.


That put me at the top of the heap as the only person with an undefeated record, which meant that the regular rounds were now finished.
1st Trevor Payton 3-0
2nd Luke Cook 2-1
3rd Eric Frost 2-1
4th Neil McMillan 2-1
If Eric had beaten me that last game then the swiss rounds still would’ve been over, since he would’ve been the only undefeated player. Anyway, after giving out some sweet prizes to the 5th and 6th place finishers, we started the playoff rounds.

There was some confusion about how to work the pairings in the playoff round: some thought that we would just re-pair the top 4 players, while others thought we should have 1st and 4th place pair off, and 2nd and 3rd place pair off (which was normally how it worked, from what I understood). But we went with the software pairings anyway, and so, wonder of wonders, I (1st place) had to play Eric (3rd place) again.

Semi-Finals (aka Round 4) vs Eric Frost (Ruhk) again.
Our setup was the same as before, but the result was oh-so different. This time, I set up for a first-round gallop on Eric’s pieces, by towing Yobuck into the top room/corridor and opening the door on the eastern side of the room. This left an unactivated Yobuck for Mara to shoot (she needed 12s to hit, so I figured he’d take 20dmg)...but she rolled a 19 and another hit, so Yobuck instead took 50 dmg, which turned out to be the game-changer. With his other activation Kyle moved up to keep Yobuck from coming in to kill some fodder (and Jagged) before swapping out. So instead, I had to gallop past Kyle and Ganner, bringing me down to 50hp by the end of the gallop. But I did manage to kill some fodder and put 30 dmg on Dash and Ganner before swapping away to safety. Oh, I also ended up losing R2 to some shots by Eric’s Dash. So the first round didn’t work out so well for me. The next round was mostly just maneuvering. However, I was able to draw a LOS to an activated Dodonna from outside of the south end of the gambit zone. Mara and Ganner were in the way, but since they had Stealth and were in cover, Dodonna was the only legal target; I swapped Dash to that location and proceeded to roll two 2s and a 6 (needing two 7s for the kill), so Dodonna lived with 10 hp. That move, while it was clever and could’ve been significant if I had killed Dodonna, actually only served to lose me the game, because it left Dash too far forward, and within range of a Levi-Mara assault (she missed twice as well, needing 3s). Yobuck charged in for 30dmg on her (she made yet another block), and then Kyle shut them all down by basing Dash and Yobuck. Yobuck had 50hp and Dash had 10, while Mara had 80 and Kyle had 120 or something. Either way, it didn’t matter. I knew I’d lose both Dash and Yobuck that round, and that the game was already lost, so when I won init I hoped for some insane luck (that Eric would miss 1 of his 3 aoo’s even after fprr’s),but it wasn’t meant to be. Yobuck died. Afterward I realized I should’ve just double-attacked Mara to bring her to 40 hp rather than hoping Eric would miss one of his attacks. Either way, the tide had turned, and there was no way I would be able to pull this one out. Yobuck and Dash died that round, Panaka after that, and Anakin after that. Eric just plain smoked me, that’s the only way to describe it. 3-1, and I’m now competing for 3rd place.

Consolation-Finals (aka Round 5) vs Neil McMillan, playing Commando Delta

Zuckuss Bounty Hunter
Han Solo Smuggler
Luke Skywalker Rebel Commando
Princess Leia
Rebel Commando Strike Leader
Elite Rebel Commando x 2
General Crix Madine
General Rieekan
R7 Astromech Droid
Mouse Droid

This was a Rebel squad without Dodonna, so it wasn’t too difficult for my squad to take down. I out-activated him, so I was able to Tow-Gallop into Leia for 30dmg, then swap for Dash, who ran over and killed Han with Momentum. Then Neil won init and shot at Dash with his ERC, but I made both evades, and then proceeded to charge back to finish off Leia. Dash died, but only after he managed to take out the Han/Leia cannon, which was this squad’s biggest threat. After that, I towed and swapped Anakin and Yobuck around enough to kill both of Neil’s ERCs and then Crix and so on, and finally finishing with Luke. 4-1 on the day, and 3rd place.

In the 20 minutes left after my last game, I watched the EPIC finish of Eric and Luke’s Finals match. I’ll let them tell the story, but I’ll just say that it was exciting to watch.


I’ve gotta say, it was a really fun day. It was great to have our friends from Buffalo join us, and we’re hoping to see them again soon. The folks at Comic Book Connection were good hosts, and it looks like next year’s Ontario Regional will be returning to that location...hopefully more of the London guys can make it to their own regional next year! :roll:

Thanks to Josh (AG7) for judging, and Don for lunch, and to everyone else for making it a fun and memorable day! :)

PS: Oh, and you guys HAVE to see some of the shirts that people were wearing! Luke Cook and Eric Frost both had EPIC shirts...maybe somebody has pictures.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:24 pm 
Hand of the Sith
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How many players did you all have.


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Although we were missing some of the London locals, we had 11 players.. 4 from London, 4 from Buffalo, and the 3 odd balls; Trev, Don, and me. Which means that it was a 10% increase in players from last year's!

---
Eric's day of Minis.

I haven't really played since GenCon last year.. so I was feeling a bit rusty. I decided to go with my last year's winning squad, just because I was familiar with it.. and becuase I figured Trevor was going to play YoBuck :P

First match vs Ian (London local)
Ian was playing:
Cad Bane
AniSTAP
Dark Woman
Qui Gonn JT
Panaka
Mas
R2 Astro
Kel Dor
Rodian Noble
Gran Raider (1 or 2)

We played on his Rancor Pen map. Seeing I was handily out activating him with Dodonna, I started on the left, and just moved some fig around to see what he would do. Mid first round, I saw that with a Mara-Levitate I could hit R2, since any other target was stealthed or Diplomat. I managed to pick him off, and with no accurate shooters, Mara was safe for that round. I also moved Kyle forward just below the Gambit zone, so I could prevent any Phase/Swapping shenanigans.
Mid Round 2 he decided to move Cad in close, and shoot at Dash, hitting all and I evaded 2. Mara Assaulted him in response. Later his Rodian and Kel Dor were adjacent.. and Dahs got close nough to shoot! Ka-Boom!. AniSTAP was out in the open, so Dash was able to take him out, with a failed deflect, come round three, but shortly thereafter, Dash also bit the dust. In the end, I lost a few more scrubs, and started to but damage on the DW, Qui Gonn and Panaka when time was called. The score was 139-49 in my favour and I was awarded a 3 point win.

Round 2 I was paired with James, another London player who had:

Mandalore the Preserver
Zuckuss BH
Mando Captain
Mando Gunslinger
Mando Scout
Mando Gunsmith
Mando Tactician
Uggy x2
Mouse Droid

We played on my Smuggler's Base. Again I had the activation advantage. By the end of round 2, I had my entire squad positioned in the Gambit area, on the other side of an overridden door of James' squad. I had also tried to assault and kill Zuckuss.. but had missed 2 attacks, so he lived with 30. He was unwilling to open the door and unleashed the pain, so I used my scrubs to out activate him in round 3, and then opened the door with my R7. Mara killed the Gunslinger, and Round 4 happened. His Scout died to another Mara assault and I put some damage on Mandalore. Mara was taken down to 10 hps, but was levitated away to safety later on.. many scrubbers died. Dash also pitched in, and when time was called, Manadalore, Zuckuss, and the Tactician had fallen, while Jagged was my only real loss. Score was 179-34, and I was awarded a 3 point win.

Trevor summed up our matches pretty well.
Our first ended in his favour, with a score of 62-73, though had the game gone on, I think he would have continued to kill me..

While our second game favoured me, going 193-12. Dash's misses were a key part, but also the damage I was able to put on Yobuck, before and during his initial gallop.

Final match vs Luke (yodabuckkiller)
His squad is posted above, and he brought in 4 Rodian Brutes and 2 Grans for his reinforcements.

We played on my map, and now I was facing an activation disadvantage!
I made an early mistake with Dodonna, placing him where Arica could get a LOS and kill him the beginning of round 2. I had no choice, and I had to hunt down Arica, or else she would continue to rip my squad apart. A levitate + long run by Kyle mean that I was able to base her, but this really stretched my squad, and in response, Vader was able to easily dispatch Ganner. This teaches me to play on a map I'm less than familiar with!
I did take down Arica , but was still on the losing side of point. I was able to start to pick off his activations, and even out the field, but he was doing the same! His scrubs were better than mine and were taking them out, while Vader was hopping around the map, trying to avoid the Mara assault. 3 times I trapped Vader with Kyle and Mara at the end of a round, only to see him Leap and Move faster to get away. Eventually Vader killed Dash, once again, using Leap to get past my scrub wall! At this point he was down to 6 or 7 figures, while I had only 4; Mara, Kyle, R7 and Camaasi.
I knew I had to get some points and also that he squad's strength was in Thrawn, so I started to work my way over the top left where they were hidding. I took out Ozell in the end, but was unable to kill anything in the final round.. ending the game with Lord Vader, MiThrawn, Mas, Lobot and Salacious against my Mara, Kyle, Camaasi and R7. The final score was 82-88 for him.

This was an excellent game, very well played on his part, and one we had done before on Vassal (where I won with some luck!).
For my second place finish, I got an autographed, limited edition, hard-backed copy of AG7's Mustafar, and $50 in store credit! Many thanks to Don and Josh for putting it all together, and judging. Hope to be a winner again next year!

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:30 pm 
Hand of the Sith
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Cool wish Eric and myself could of made it maybe next year. (If Eric get his passport)


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:40 pm 
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Yeah 8(!) of the London guys couldn't make it. What are you going to do? Good times had by all despite the unexpectedly low turnout. Shout outs to all the guys who traveled for the event. And thanks to our hosts.

Trevor being the only one to go undefeated the first three rounds killed the regular tournie, and we jumped into the playoffs a round early.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 6:39 pm 
Droid Army Commander
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Nice write up Trevor. It really was a very fun day too bad we all can't get together more often. I can't remember what you Lobo Reins were though.

The sweet prizes given out at the end of regular play were for 5th the bubble boy and for 11th last the booby prize, which were an AG7 hard board mounted one of a kind version of Korriban and a Titanium Die-Cast Snowspeeder respectively.

In addition to the pass and store credit we gave out the Shadow Stormies to everyone and an AG7 hard board mounted one of a kind version of Mustafar to second place and a Mapmaker Exodus Cruiser map to fourth place.



thereisnotry wrote:
PS: Oh, and you guys HAVE to see some of the shirts that people were wearing! Luke Cook and Eric Frost both had EPIC shirts...maybe somebody has pictures.


I do have a few shots of the final game but I don't think I got the front of their epic shirts in it. I'll get it off my phone this week.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:22 am 
Master of the Order
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Congrats Luke! You beat some really tough competitors!

R5Don4 wrote:
Trevor being the only one to go undefeated the first three rounds killed the regular tournie, and we jumped into the playoffs a round early.


This must be a Canadian thing. ;)

I was the only undefeated in Kokomo this year after 3 rounds, but we played the requisite 4. Heck at the Chicago Regionals last year I was the only undefeated after 4 rounds, and we had to play the requisite 5th round, which cost me. The fifth round gave me a squad I matched up against poorly, which I lost to, and then that dropped my seeding and paired me with him again in the Semi-finals, and I lost to him again.

I have always followed the old DCI rule that you must do 3 rounds for 4-8 players, 4 rounds for 9-16, 5 rounds for 17-32, 6 rounds for 33-64, and 7 rounds for 65-128. Regardless of if there was only 1 undefeated the round before or not.

At GenCon 2007 we were told that it was the last round since there was only one undefeated at that point (Bill), only to be told we had to play 7 anyway. (Aaron "lobostele" beat me in round seven to thwart my going to the top 8). Kelly beat Bill in round 7 and went on to win it all.


Anyway - my biggest question isn't what is regulation, but why on EARTH would you want to play LESS minis!?!


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:33 am 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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yes, generally speaking, I have no issue if people want to cut short a round early. But swiss as a format technically only works if you play the full number of rounds. The order a round short, isn't accurate yet. That's why generally you play the extra round. Swiss is intended to make sure there are no more than 1 undefeated, but that's not it's only purpose. It's also intended to rank order the players below that, and you always have a more accurate ranking with the extra round played.

As for the Gencon 2007 story, better believe I wished I had really tried in that final round game. But once I lost the side roll, and the first init, killing my BG, then killed his R2, so all Kelly did was turtle, I said fudge it and charged him, knowing the win or loss wouldn't affect me making top 8. If only I had known how much worse the 7th ranked player's squad was vs the 8th's I'd have perhaps put in a full effort. If I hadn't had to play the particular opposing squad (4 JWMs and Bossk lol), I would have had a great chance to win it all. So Tim's story holds true, you never know what that last round will do.

But again, don't take this as criticism, if people want to end early, I totally understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:39 pm 
Death Star Designers
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The store hours for the Comic Book Collector were also unfortunately short; They close a 6pm on a Saturday. As venues go, it was acceptable for our measly 11 players but Dueling Grounds in Toronto is bigger, cleaner, nicer & easier for everybody (except the London locals) to get to. If there are SWM 2012 Regionals, I think we need to go back to T.O.

Dropping the 4th round from the Swiss actually gave us enough time to finish the tourney and have appropriate time to trade and give out prizes.


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Yeah, I'd be happy to play another round of minis too. But the time factor was significant; we were behind for most of the day, and so we were doing 55-minute rounds in order to finish by closing time. Being able to drop a round really helped us to finish on time. BTW, most of the non-top-4 players were playing games while the playoffs were going on...so it's not like we really played less minis. I guess the result was really that we just "sped up" the tournament for the top-4 players.

Hypothetical: if I was 3-0 but then lost my 4th round game, then I'd obviously no longer be undefeated. So therefore I have a question: Is it even important at all to have 1 undefeated player? Or is the goal instead to have 1 -or less- undefeated player?


And Don: my reinforcements with Lobot were different every game...that's why I like Lobot in this squad. Using 2 Gran Raiders vs non-accurate-shooting teams is great, or Caamasi/Salacious and a bunch of Brutes/Ugs is useful too, depending on the squad matchup. I brought rakghouls along too, just in case someone played a swarm squad and I wanted to not rely on Yobuck for all the action. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:18 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:

Hypothetical: if I was 3-0 but then lost my 4th round game, then I'd obviously no longer be undefeated. So therefore I have a question: Is it even important at all to have 1 undefeated player? Or is the goal instead to have 1 -or less- undefeated player?


Yeah, just to be even more clear, definitely not talking about it for criticism. I totally get the decision, and have 0 issue with it. I've done it at times in other places. Was just trying to explain what it does so people are clear (not necessarily the Canada guys, but other newer players who might read this thread).

Anyways, yes, it's 1 or less undefeated. The number of rounds is there to ensure that it's not possible to have more than 1. But it's also designed to rank the players in a fairly accurate 1-X ranking. Obviously bad matchups can change the actual rankings on any given day, so it isn't like the world's #1 player couldn't easily finish 15th. But it tentatively gives a ranking for each player based on how they played that day. Obviously, the more rounds you get in, the more accurate the report, given that it has more data. I remember seeing it somewhere years ago (maybe Nickname has a link), but there's a nice explanation of how accurate Swiss is at this, and how the suggested number of rounds gets you into a pretty reasonable margin of error, where as it's quite different at one round short (room for much more error). And if I remember correctly, it's mostly accurate for the top end, not as accurate for the bottom end.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:21 pm 
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I understand there were extenuating circumstances in this instance.

I strongly feel that it all needs to be decided before the tournament starts. If everyone agrees that it will end one round early if there is only one undefeated, then of course it's fine. But waiting until it happens seems unfair.

I also think people should get what they paid for. Some people drive many hours and maybe even take time off work to go to these tournaments. It can be a large financial drain. If a tournament advertises it will be 4 rounds, then it's not fair to go less. This is less of a concern for Regionals, and more about other tournaments like Marmalade Dog. Since it's related I figured I'd chime in here. People deserve to get what they paid for, and not have it arbitrarily shortened if there is an advertised length.


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:23 pm 
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billiv15 wrote:
thereisnotry wrote:

Hypothetical: if I was 3-0 but then lost my 4th round game, then I'd obviously no longer be undefeated. So therefore I have a question: Is it even important at all to have 1 undefeated player? Or is the goal instead to have 1 -or less- undefeated player?


Yeah, just to be even more clear, definitely not talking about it for criticism. I totally get the decision, and have 0 issue with it. I've done it at times in other places. Was just trying to explain what it does so people are clear (not necessarily the Canada guys, but other newer players who might read this thread).

Anyways, yes, it's 1 or less undefeated. The number of rounds is there to ensure that it's not possible to have more than 1. But it's also designed to rank the players in a fairly accurate 1-X ranking. Obviously bad matchups can change the actual rankings on any given day, so it isn't like the world's #1 player couldn't easily finish 15th. But it tentatively gives a ranking for each player based on how they played that day. Obviously, the more rounds you get in, the more accurate the report, given that it has more data. I remember seeing it somewhere years ago (maybe Nickname has a link), but there's a nice explanation of how accurate Swiss is at this, and how the suggested number of rounds gets you into a pretty reasonable margin of error, where as it's quite different at one round short (room for much more error). And if I remember correctly, it's mostly accurate for the top end, not as accurate for the bottom end.

Okay, thanks for the helpful explanation, Bill. And yeah, we know these comments were FYI rather than complaints. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:25 pm 
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TimmerB123 wrote:
I understand there were extenuating circumstances in this instance.

I strongly feel that it all needs to be decided before the tournament starts. If everyone agrees that it will end one round early if there is only one undefeated, then of course it's fine. But waiting until it happens seems unfair.

I also think people should get what they paid for. Some people drive many hours and maybe even take time off work to go to these tournaments. It can be a large financial drain. If a tournament advertises it will be 4 rounds, then it's not fair to go less. This is less of a concern for Regionals, and more about other tournaments like Marmalade Dog. Since it's related I figured I'd chime in here. People deserve to get what they paid for, and not have it arbitrarily shortened if there is an advertised length.

I'm not sure if we even advertised the length. The advertising thread just said, "Swiss format followed by a playoff."

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:14 pm 
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Part of the issue of the 4th round was that it wanted to pair me with Trevor again, which was kinda lame, but we had to face each other in the next playoff round, also kinda lame :P

Bump, with my match reports above.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:28 am 
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Ruhk wrote:
Part of the issue of the 4th round was that it wanted to pair me with Trevor again, which was kinda lame, but we had to face each other in the next playoff round, also kinda lame :P

Bump, with my match reports above.


Yeah, unfortunately the program doesn't seem to work perfectly with smaller numbers (less than 16). I have seen it rematch people in Swiss before too. Nobody should ever be paired up twice in swiss. I've seen it happen (I think it happened in Kokomo) and we just had to get creative in the pairing.

When you get to the finals, if you're paired up with someone you played before that is common. It's even common to play who you just played in the last round. But that's just how that works.

At the end of Swiss #1 plays #4, and #2 plays #3 (With a 4 player playoffs). Although I understand it may have happened differently here with the playoff pairings.


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario Regional Results
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:39 am 
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thereisnotry wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
I understand there were extenuating circumstances in this instance.

I strongly feel that it all needs to be decided before the tournament starts. If everyone agrees that it will end one round early if there is only one undefeated, then of course it's fine. But waiting until it happens seems unfair.

I also think people should get what they paid for. Some people drive many hours and maybe even take time off work to go to these tournaments. It can be a large financial drain. If a tournament advertises it will be 4 rounds, then it's not fair to go less. This is less of a concern for Regionals, and more about other tournaments like Marmalade Dog. Since it's related I figured I'd chime in here. People deserve to get what they paid for, and not have it arbitrarily shortened if there is an advertised length.

I'm not sure if we even advertised the length. The advertising thread just said, "Swiss format followed by a playoff."


I'm sure there wasn't an advertised length in this case. You can't really do that for a regionals (other than 4 rounds for 9-16, 5 rounds for 17-32, etc). I was actually referring to another tournament where there was a set number of rounds advertised, and it was shortened for no other reason than some people wanted to go home earlier. My example would be akin to this years Jedi Challenge suddenly being shortened to 3 rounds for each tournament. Not only would the results be inaccurate (There would likely be too many undefeateds), but everyone who took the time and spent the money to play lots of minis would be short-changed. I apologize, this was a bit of a tangent - and then I had to explain it further to prevent confusion. This doesn't have to do with your tournament specifically, so I will get back on topic.

As for the Canadian Regional specifically - it sounds like there were extenuating circumstances, AND you got down to only one undefeated anyway. So that decision makes sense. I just hope the decision to end a round early if you got down to one undefeated was made before the tournament started.


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