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SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)
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Author:  Engineer [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

SSB 2.0 rules version 0.8
Written by Eric Larson
Play tested by: Dean Miller (fixed the map issue)


Game board/terrain

Place two Star Ship grid maps to form a rectangle. Every four small squares is one sector for SSB 2.0. (need to insert picture)
OR
Use a War at Sea map.
Terrain
Planets – cannot be entered by any ship (ships with “landing” gain points for being adjacent
Asteroid fields – fighters can enter these spaces (other ships/subs cannot)

Board setup
Place the three objective tokens along the center line of the map. Two spaces should be between each objective token.
Each player should place two terrain features (planets or asteroid fields). A single player can not place both of their terrain features adjacent to each other.

Line of Sight
Measure from the center of one sector to another. If the line of sight crosses a planet or asteroid, then the shot is blocked.

Ship types
BB (Battleships) – large battle wagons of the universe
CA (Heavy Cruisers) – lots of guns, but not as much armor as BB’s.
CL (Light Cruisers) – much smaller ships, less armor
DD (destroyers) – lightest capital ships in the game
SUB (subs, looking for a better Star Wars name) – ships that only a few other ships can target
F (fighters) – small fighters (either single uniques or small groups)

Movement
Each sector on the board has 6 sides. Ships can move in any direction and have no facing (ie. no front, side or rear).
Capital ships can move 1-3 sectors, fighters move 2-4 sectors and SUBS can move 1 sector

Set up
Show fleets, if both fleets contain the same unique ship then remove that ship(s) and continue playing (ie. Luke's X-wing can not be in both fleets)
Roll for map, then set up map (use the WaS maps 1-5) (insert pics)
Roll for side, high roll selects side and sets up first
Capital ships sets up in the last row of the board
Subs can set up anywhere on your half of the map
Fighters with hyperdrives can setup anywhere on your half of the map (Gravity Well Projectors prevent the use of hyperdrives)
Stacking limits – 2 capital ships, 1 sub and 4 fighters from each side can be in the same sector

Movement
Roll for init 2d6 and add your flag rating. Lower roll moves first – player 1 (no choice). The player who has the higher init roll is player 2.
Player 1 moves their capital ships (not subs) and then player 2 moves their capital ships.
Player 1 moves their subs and then player 2 moves their subs.
Player 1 moves one fighter, then player 2 moves a fighter. Keep alternating until one player is out of fighters to move and then the player with fighters remaining moves the rest.

Fighters attack
Fighter can attack other fighters, make torpedo or bomb attacks against enemy ships, or strafe enemy ships
When fighters attack other fighters, use the anti-fighter attack value
If the damage is less than the armor, no effect.
If the damage is equal to the armor but less than the vital armor, the fighter is aborted and can not make any attacks against ships this turn.
If the damage is equal to or greater than the vital armor, the fighter is destroyed.

When fighters make torpedo attacks against enemy ships, roll d6’s equal to the attack value
When fighters make bomb attacks against enemy ships, roll d6’s equal to the attack value
When fighter strafe enemy ships use the gunnery attack value (fighters that are strafing have -2 to both armor and vital armor)(make sure to make strafing fighters)
Player 1 fires all their anti-air attacks (ships and fighters)
Player 2 fires all their anti-air attacks (ships and fighters)
Player 1 attacks with any surviving fighters
Player 2 attacks with any surviving fighters
Apply damage to ships and fighters

Capital ships attack
Player 1 fires all their capital ships (not subs). Once a ship starts firing, all that ships weapons must be rolled before moving on to a different ship (ie. After you fire the main gun on one ship, you must make all the remaining attacks for that ship before moving on).
Player 2 fires all their capital ships (not subs).
Apply damage to ships/subs

Subs attack
Subs roll one less torpedo die for each enemy DD in the same or adjacent sector. Also subtract one torpedo die for each anti-sub attack during this turn. A DD that makes an anti-sub attack only subtracts one torpedo die not two.
Player 1 fires all their SUBS
Player 2 fires all their SUBS
Apply damage to ships/subs

Attacks
Roll the number of d6 equal to the attack value at the range (units in the same sector are range 0). 4’s and 5’s count as one hit. 6’s count as two hits.
If the number of hits is:
Less than your targets armor – nothing happens
Equal to or greater than your targets armor (but less than the vital armor) – one damage
Equal to or greater than your targets vital armor – unit destroyed
If your targets hull points are reduced to zero, the unit is destroyed

Sub torpedo’s hit on a 6 for 2 damage. This damage goes directly to the hull (bypasses armor and vital armor)

Build total and how to win
The normal build total is 100, 200 or 300 points.
The game is played to 150, 300 or 450 points.
Objectives
1) Defeating an enemy unit is worth it cost
2) Each objective token is worth 50, 100 or 150 points respectively.
3) Defeating all your opponents capital ships is worth the same as an objective token

Check for victory at the end of a turn.
1) If one player does not have any units left, then the other player has won.
2) The player with the higher point total wins.

Claiming an objective token
To control an objective token, you must have at least one capital ship in the same sector as the objective token and the 6 sectors surrounding the token must be clear of enemy capital ships. Remove the objective marker from the board and place it in front of you. Once taken objective tokens cannot be taken away (even if your opponent later moves into that sector).


Extra comments
Capital ships can not use ER X on DD’s.
When DD’s are targeted by a BB’s main guns, only 6’s hit (they still count as 2 hits)
DD’s can either make gunnery/torpedo attacks or anti-sub attacks (not both).
Fighters choose to attack with bombs or torpedo’s (not both)

Variants
500 point games
Increase ship stacking to 3 capital ships, 1 sub and 6 fighters per side in the same sector
The game is played to 750 points and each objective is worth 250 points

Author:  Engineer [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

Glossary
ER X - while undamaged this unit can make main gunnary range 3 attacks at range X
Torpedo defense 1 - each torpedo hit does one less hull damage
Bristling with guns - can make two secondary gunnery attacks against separate targets
Destroyer Leader - +1 init for each destroyer you control (max 3)
Landing +X - if this ship lands on an enemy planet, you get X points
Audacious attack - once per game, this unit can make 2 attacks. Targets must be in different sectors.
Submerged shot - this unit can attack subs in the same sector
Torpedo X - this unit can make a single torpedo X attack
Poor Defensive Arament - whenever enemy fighters attack this unit, this unit has -1 armor
Skip Bomb - Whenever this unit makes a bomb attack, each 6 counts as 3 successes instead of 2
Slow X - on a roll of X or less, his unit moves one less
Tractor Beams - move one adjacent enemy fighter or destroyer one square in any direction (can not enter terrain it is illegal to enter)
Gravity Well Projectors - enemy units can not use hyperdrives
Pack Hunter - if you control any other subs with Pack Hunter, this unit rolls one extra die when making torpedo attacks

Author:  skeeve3000 [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

Couple of quick questions. What size should the terrain be. Should a planet take up a whole sector and an asteroid only a 1/4? What is the suggestion for us to use for terrain?

I also wanted to make sure that I am reading this right. On the SSB map, is a sector 2 squares by 2 squares? That means that physically you can only fit one capital ship in there.

Just wanted to clarify.

Thanks

(I hope I am not getting annoying! :D I just want to make sure that I am getting this right. I am very excited to play this at GenCon.)

Author:  Engineer [ Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

skeeve3000 wrote:
Couple of quick questions. What size should the terrain be. Should a planet take up a whole sector and an asteroid only a 1/4? What is the suggestion for us to use for terrain?

Until there are planets and asteroids for download, I suggest they should be one half to 3/4 of the sector. Planets are roundish and asteroids are not. :)

skeeve3000 wrote:
I also wanted to make sure that I am reading this right. On the SSB map, is a sector 2 squares by 2 squares? That means that physically you can only fit one capital ship in there.

Set up
Stacking limits – 2 capital ships, 1 sub and 4 fighters from each side can be in the same sector

Physically only one ship will fit, but two are allowed (from each side). When ships get that close, they will not spend more than one turn before several are eliminated. You will need to stack the ships to make them fit. In WaS, the ships are sized better. I did the best I could with the ship size.

Author:  LoboStele [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

Before I start making comments here, let me again list my caveat here that I have never played WAS, so that's the perspective I'm coming from. Which, incidentally, I think is probably a really good one, since both Eric and Dean HAVE played WAS, so I think you guys tend to forget to include some fairly basic things into the rules here. Anyways, here goes...

Engineer wrote:
Board setup
Place the three objective tokens along the center line of the map. Two spaces should be between each objective token.
Each player should place two terrain features (planets or asteroid fields). A single player can not place both of their terrain features adjacent to each other.


Can you place the terrain ANYWHERE on the map, or only on your own side of the map? In another thread, you mentioned something about asteroids only taking up 1/4 of a sector and planets taking 3/4 or something like that. How does that affect LOS issues?

Engineer wrote:
Ship types
BB (Battleships) – large battle wagons of the universe
CA (Heavy Cruisers) – lots of guns, but not as much armor as BB’s.
CL (Light Cruisers) – much smaller ships, less armor
DD (destroyers) – lightest capital ships in the game
SUB (subs, looking for a better Star Wars name) – ships that only a few other ships can target
F (fighters) – small fighters (either single uniques or small groups)


I know you are trying to mesh WAS with SSB, but honestly, I think almost ALL of these could stand to use more star-warsy type names. Destroyers really doesn't make much sense. When I hear the word 'destroyer' I don't think of the 'lightest capital ships'. The names don't necessarily mesh. I'll think about some ideas for better names, but for now, suffice to say, that as we played our test game, we could NEVER remember what types of ships were what.

In addition.....when do Destroyers Move/Attack? Part of this list should probably include something to specifically point out which ships are considered 'Capital ships'. We ended up assuming that anything which wasn't a Sub or Fighter was a capital ship, which I think is correct, but it wasn't immediately clear to us.


Engineer wrote:
Fighters with hyperdrives can setup anywhere on your half of the map (Gravity Well Projectors prevent the use of hyperdrives)


What about Fighters without hyperdrives? Or what do you do when the Interdictor is on the board? Is there were the 'Fighter Launch' ability comes into play? We had no idea how to work around this question, so we just simply started all our fighters in the first row along with everything else.

Engineer wrote:
Fighters attack
Fighter can attack other fighters, make torpedo or bomb attacks against enemy ships, or strafe enemy ships
When fighters attack other fighters, use the anti-fighter attack value
If the damage is less than the armor, no effect.
If the damage is equal to the armor but less than the vital armor, the fighter is aborted and can not make any attacks against ships this turn.
If the damage is equal to or greater than the vital armor, the fighter is destroyed.

When fighters make torpedo attacks against enemy ships, roll d6’s equal to the attack value
When fighters make bomb attacks against enemy ships, roll d6’s equal to the attack value
When fighter strafe enemy ships use the gunnery attack value (fighters that are strafing have -2 to both armor and vital armor)(make sure to make strafing fighters)
Player 1 fires all their anti-air attacks (ships and fighters)
Player 2 fires all their anti-air attacks (ships and fighters)
Player 1 attacks with any surviving fighters
Player 2 attacks with any surviving fighters
Apply damage to ships and fighters


This whole section needs to be cleaned up, IMO. It took us a good 5-10 minutes of reading and re-reading this before we THINK we finally got it sorted out. You need to re-word the 'anti-air' part of it, as that's ridiculously confusing, since in some sense, ALL SSB pieces are in 'the air', lol. We finally figured out that this meant that all ships on the board fire their 'Anti-Fighter' weapons first, and then you go back through and do your other attacks.

That's where we got confused next though. Can Fighters use both their Anti-Fighter weapons and their Main Gun weapons in the same round? Do you have to declare a Strafing Run whenever you do your Movement action? If you do a Strafing Run, can you make Anit-Fighter attacks still?

When a Fighter is aborted, does it still get to make it's Anti-Fighter attacks? If not, that seems incredibly powerful for whoever gets to attack first (it means I would WANT to lose init every round).

Slightly related, but more on Ship Stats....What does the 'Torpedo 1' SA mean on pieces like Obi-Wan's Jedi Interceptor? Does that mean he has only 1 torpedo that he can choose to use 1 time per skirmish? I assume that's the case, but it seems very low powered and hardly worth using in most cases. You're talking about the same as rolling roughly a 17 or higher on a D20, which from all of our experience in SWM is fairly rare. So I don't see how a one-time-use Torpedo really helps that much.

Lastly, why have a difference between Bombs and Torpedos? Are they supposed to be different things? We assumed so, and we figured that the Bombs (like the ARC-170's 10 attack) must be used like normal attacks, where you count 4's and 5's, and 6's as double, and then compare against the Armor, rather than the Torpedo method of just rolling for 6's. Might need to explain that better, or just come up with a different term. Concussion Missiles are typically the lesser form of Proton Torpedos in the Star Wars 'verse so perhaps consider that instead of 'Bomb'.

Engineer wrote:
Subs attack
Subs roll one less torpedo die for each enemy DD in the same or adjacent sector. Also subtract one torpedo die for each anti-sub attack during this turn. A DD that makes an anti-sub attack only subtracts one torpedo die not two.
Player 1 fires all their SUBS
Player 2 fires all their SUBS
Apply damage to ships/subs


Just for clarification.....if a Fighter with anti-Sub attacks hits a Sub, they just simply take damage, and are not 'aborted', correct?

Engineer wrote:
Attacks
Roll the number of d6 equal to the attack value at the range (units in the same sector are range 0). 4’s and 5’s count as one hit. 6’s count as two hits.
If the number of hits is:
Less than your targets armor – nothing happens
Equal to or greater than your targets armor (but less than the vital armor) – one damage
Equal to or greater than your targets vital armor – unit destroyed
If your targets hull points are reduced to zero, the unit is destroyed

Sub torpedo’s hit on a 6 for 2 damage. This damage goes directly to the hull (bypasses armor and vital armor)/quote]

I REALLY like this damage method. Made it fun, and I don't mind rolling a bunch of dice. Just have to remember to bring more D6s with me next time, lol. We only had 5 total D6's to play with, so it made keeping track of things tough, lol.

Engineer wrote:
2) Each objective token is worth 50, 100 or 150 points respectively.
3) Defeating all your opponents capital ships is worth the same as an objective token


Which token is worth which points? Is the first one worth 50, the second worth 100, and the third worth 150? That's what made the most sense to me. If you defeat all of your opponent's ships, then which token does that count for? Whichever one hasn't been claimed yet? Need to flesh this out a bit more. Hard to understand how it works.



As I said, overall, it was a lot of fun playing by these rules, and I would definitely like to test it out a bit more. But I will say that we definitely got a bit frustrated throughout playing it, because we really felt like the rules, as written, were very hard to understand. If we had not had 2 guys in the shop that night who know how to play WAS, we would've been completely lost, IMO. So, I really think the rules need to be re-written in such a way so that people who have never even heard of WAS can print this out and play with it.

Side Note: to go along with our play-testing report....I'm noticing now that there are several things we probably did wrong with the game, the first thing being that we didn't do the Hull Points/Reduced Stats stuff correctly. For instance, we thought the Millenium Falcon only had 2 Hull Points total, and when you got hit once, then you were down to the Reduced status, rather than being 3 HP total, and needing to be hit twice in order to get knocked down. That makes a LOT more sense now, and probably would've made a bigger difference in how the game turned out. Will definitely have to play again now that I understand things a bit better.

Author:  LoboStele [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

Here are my suggestions for more 'star warsy' type names that might be used for these categories. Honestly, as someone pointed out elsewhere, I really think we should try to make this as separate from WAS as possible. Making it sound similar to WAS only helps players who have played WAS. For those of us who haven't played WAS, the more naval terms, vs. space-faring terms, are more confusing, IMO.


Quote:
BB (Battleships) – large battle wagons of the universe

Battleships is probably fine here, but I might consider the word 'Dreadnaught'. This is the in-universe term for things like Star Destroyers and such.
Quote:
CA (Heavy Cruisers) – lots of guns, but not as much armor as BB’s.

This one is fine with me
Quote:
CL (Light Cruisers) – much smaller ships, less armor

This one I don't mind, but you might also consider using the word 'Frigate'
Quote:
DD (destroyers) – lightest capital ships in the game

I would go with Freighter here, as that's what the Falcon is, and seems like most of the ships in this category are. The Falcon certainly isn't a 'Destroyer', IMO, and neither is Palpatine's/Imperial Shuttle, lol.

Another word that could be used in here somewhere might be 'Carrier' if referring to a ship which has a large Launching capability. Also, is there really a need to have such a distinction between BB, CA, and CL? I understand the DD, because they have specific interactions with 'Subs'. But maybe I'm just not familiar enough with WAS to know why it's worth having the other 3 categories all be separate. Would be nice to squeeze those down to just 1 category.
Quote:
SUB (subs, looking for a better Star Wars name) – ships that only a few other ships can target

Several options for this have been given previously. Do you not like any of them? I personally would go with 'Gunship' or 'Assault Ship' probably. 'Cloaked' works well too.

Anyways, there's what I was thinking so far.

Author:  Engineer [ Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

Thanks for the comments. I need to make some V set comments and then take a stab at rewriting the rules when the kitchen floor is being replaced this next week.

Author:  Disturbed1 [ Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

Been busy lately. just got through reading the rules for the original game. Gonna try to figure out the rules for the 2.0 this weekend.

Never played WaS though, so I'll probably have anice long string of 'what does this mean' type questions.

Author:  Engineer [ Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SSB 2.0 rules version 0.85 (out for playtesting)

Disturbed1 wrote:
Been busy lately. just got through reading the rules for the original game. Gonna try to figure out the rules for the 2.0 this weekend.

Never played WaS though, so I'll probably have anice long string of 'what does this mean' type questions.

There is a new WaS rulebook. I hope to get the chance this week to re-write the SSB 2.0 rules.

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