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 Post subject: Reasons for Floor Rules Update
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:26 am 
Really Cool Alien from a Cantina
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Reasons for Floor Rules Update

Firstly, I do not want to offend anyone by starting this thread. Many people have put many hours into this game in the past and some continue currently. I am just trying to understand what the Floor Rules really mean, why they would need to be changed, and what criteria to use to accept or reject the change.

In the SWM game, the real rules are those published with the (latest) starter set.If someone did not have access to the internet (bear with me on this one) or know the "favorite" web sites that contain game rules changes, these are the only rules that they would know: Komari Vosa is a shooter and Soresu Style Mastery affects all attacks. These I will refer to as the Lucas Rules.

If players agreed to modified rules, they could do so for their own games at their own locations. These are House Rules.

The FAQ was created (I expect) to clearify the operation and interaction of the abilities in the game. Some of these rulings may have made it into the latest rules descriptions, but this was not required.

The Errata was created to fix typos on the cards (mostly). These were include into the lastest rules descriptions, so are unknown to the general public.

WOTC/DCI wanted to run tournaments, so created tournament rules. Over the years, rules modifications were written and placed into the DCI Floor Rules. These covered topics like banned figures, modified abilities descriptions, legal map choices, point levels, team formats, and acceptance of the FAQ and Errata as official. These I refer to as the DCI rules. No one was under any obligation to play these rules unless they were playing in a DCI santioned tournament.

In point of fact, these rules are nothing more than "house rules" when you played games in the DCI house. They were not the offical Lucas rules as presented by the starter sets.

Now there is a request for modifications to the current DCI rules. These presumably could be referred to as the SWMGamers Rules. Expected suggestions would cover similar topics that were covered in the DCI Rules. These rules would be used for SWMGamers sanctioned/sponsored events. No one would be forced to follow them at other events. For want of a better description, they are santioned house rules!

The primary request was asking for additions to the valid map list from the wonderful maps that are available. My impression of the implicit request was to ask for modificatiuons to the current game and mechanics to broaden the appeal, balance the meta, clean-up some design conficts, etc.

A number of changes have been suggested and a general response has been either (1) the v-set figures can fix the issues with new abilities or (2) house rule it at home or (3) that's the way it has always been and it has worked well enough up to now.

I do not accept those responses as valid or useful to the community. My feeling is that if the active SWMGamers audience can convince the SWMGamers rules committee (hall of fame members?) that the overall quality of the game would increase by making a better set of house rules than DCI could, then they should consider it. Maintaining the status quo rules because DCI created them in the first place is not the best approach.

Much more than my 2 cents worth. Thanks for reading.


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 Post subject: Re: Reasons for Floor Rules Update
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:00 pm 
Name Calling Internet Bully
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MandalMauler wrote:
A number of changes have been suggested and a general response has been either (1) the v-set figures can fix the issues with new abilities or (2) house rule it at home or (3) that's the way it has always been and it has worked well enough up to now.

I do not accept those responses as valid or useful to the community.
Well, you've characterized the responses in to useless generalizations - it's no wonder you don't accept them. And while there are uses for generalizations, rule issues and changes are about very minor details - so generalizations are not helpful. if you have a case to make about a specific change, then make it. Complaining that in general you don't like the answers given which are opinions of the community, not official responses from the person who writes the rules, is in no way helpful.

MandalMauler wrote:
My feeling is that if the active SWMGamers audience can convince the SWMGamers rules committee (hall of fame members?) that the overall quality of the game would increase by making a better set of house rules than DCI could, then they should consider it. Maintaining the status quo rules because DCI created them in the first place is not the best approach.
You are completely mistaken. Dean writes the rules, all changes are those that convince him. There is no commitee. Everyone else commenting in that thread, is a community member. So if your statement were true, that the community is convinced of a given change (general agreement), then Dean would consider it. The fact of the matter is, there is very little other than map changes that have that kind of agreement at the moment. In the past, changes were made in precisely this manner. The community convinced Dean (Nickname and Rob as well to a degree), and the changes were made.

If you think there are good ideas, then support them in the thread. Don't make new threads to complain about how the community is being treated by the community. That seems to be counter productive. Changes stand on their merit, and in general, changes should always be reasonably conservative in nature.

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 Post subject: Re: Reasons for Floor Rules Update
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:12 pm 
Death Star Designers
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I don't really understand what you're complaining about. Are you opposed to the DCI floor rules, are you opposed to the floor rules being changed, or do you think that the floor rules need to be changed more (like a complete overhaul)?

If it's the first, then I just suggest you don't play in DCI tournaments. The rules are pretty much required for the sake of fairness, and every game out there with sanctioned tournaments has floor rules like these.

If it's opposition to the floor rules being changed, then I wonder if you're aware that when WotC made the game they floor rules would be changed pretty much twice a year every year. The game changes as time goes on, so the floor rules need to stay up to date in order to keep up with the game.

If you think that the floor rules should be completely re-vamped, well, I think that the vast majority of people who play in DCI tournaments like the floor rules in general, so I don't see that happening. Small tweaks (like map changes) are welcome, but it has worked this way for a while, and I for one have never seen a problem with it. Also keep in mind that the person who writes the floor rules is Dean, and he has ALWAYS been the person who wrote the floor rules. Yes, even when WotC was making the game. So that isn't changing. You seem to think that the new house rules (SWMGamers rules as you called it) are somehow fundamentally different than DCI house rules. They really aren't. The same people are writing them, the same people are working on them, they are being changed in the same ways, pretty much the only difference is that they will be hosted at a website other than WotC's.

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 Post subject: Re: Reasons for Floor Rules Update
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Tournement rules are necesary because some people like to play within an organized competetive system where you can for the most part compare apples to apples results regardless of where in the world you are.

The existing DCI version has been proven to be both reasonably fair and popular.

Ain't broke = don't fix

It's really ambiguous what you're trying to say in that sprawling post but the best guess is that you want something significantly different from the existing floor rules. If so, you'll have to build concensus that your that your rules are an improvement over what we have. Given the amount of thought, gameplay experience, and time that has gone into the existing floor rules, I think you've set yourself up for a hurculean task, but new ideas are always worth exploring--you just have to be SPECIFIC rather than post something that reads as vague criticism.

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