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 Post subject: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:00 pm 
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Here's my custom Celeste Morne that seems to capture her from the comic books... :P

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Last edited by Sithfan on Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 6:45 pm 
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Wow. Would the disease apply to force powers also? If so she might be a little undercoasted.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:17 pm 
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TreebeardTheEnt wrote:
Wow. Would the disease apply to force powers also? If so she might be a little undercoasted.


I tried it out today and found that I was running out of force points quite quickly, mostly just from lightsaber defense, so the cost should be fine... But I'm gonna test it out a bit more to see what I can bring in with her...

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:15 pm 
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Sithfan wrote:
TreebeardTheEnt wrote:
Wow. Would the disease apply to force powers also? If so she might be a little undercoasted.


I tried it out today and found that I was running out of force points quite quickly, mostly just from lightsaber defense, so the cost should be fine... But I'm gonna test it out a bit more to see what I can bring in with her...


Might want to find a way for her to make Rakghouls into Bodyguards. It's something I toyed with in one of my Celeste Morne incarnations.


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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Gemini1179 wrote:
Sithfan wrote:
TreebeardTheEnt wrote:
Wow. Would the disease apply to force powers also? If so she might be a little undercoasted.


I tried it out today and found that I was running out of force points quite quickly, mostly just from lightsaber defense, so the cost should be fine... But I'm gonna test it out a bit more to see what I can bring in with her...


Might want to find a way for her to make Rakghouls into Bodyguards. It's something I toyed with in one of my Celeste Morne incarnations.


I think that if you had "renewable" bodyguards it would increase the cost by quite a bit. As of right now I think the costing is right on so you can bring in enough support to be competitive...

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Is there a Karness Muur custom out there?

If I remember the two volumes of Star Wars: Vector, Karness Muur is being held in check -somewhat- by Celeste Morne.
I would make a Special Ability like Transfer Essence (When this character is defeated, the attacker must roll a save [characters with a Force Rating save of 11; any other character save of 16]).

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:32 pm 
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SteveSpikes wrote:
Is there a Karness Muur custom out there?

If I remember the two volumes of Star Wars: Vector, Karness Muur is being held in check -somewhat- by Celeste Morne.
I would make a Special Ability like Transfer Essence (When this character is defeated, the attacker must roll a save [characters with a Force Rating save of 11; any other character save of 16]).


ive had this thought with her too, but i thought that if someone should have to roll a save, it should be the fig with the most force points on the baord, because Muur always sought out someone with a high force power so he could always have access to the force through them.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:59 am 
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DarkFather wrote:
SteveSpikes wrote:
Is there a Karness Muur custom out there?

If I remember the two volumes of Star Wars: Vector, Karness Muur is being held in check -somewhat- by Celeste Morne.
I would make a Special Ability like Transfer Essence (When this character is defeated, the attacker must roll a save [characters with a Force Rating save of 11; any other character save of 16]).


ive had this thought with her too, but i thought that if someone should have to roll a save, it should be the fig with the most force points on the baord, because Muur always sought out someone with a high force power so he could always have access to the force through them.

I forgot about Muur's daily Force requirement. D'oh.
In that case, if it'll be the character with the most Force points, it should fall to both sides. Furthermore, I would use the "base" number shown on the card since a good majority of Force users have Force Renewal X.
With this new evidence, I would give Muur some sort of Betrayal Special Ability, and I would change the Activation rule (if the "host" activates, so does Muur). In order to "keep him in check" (the "original" host) or to expel him (anyone in the other squad), there should be a save before the host activates. If the save fails, the host joins the other squad until the next round or whenever a save is made.
In order to defeat Muur, but save the host, I would use 2 Force Points instead of the standard 1 FP for the "regular" Force Spirit.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:16 am 
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I think that giving her Rakghoul Disease and some area-effect abilities (Burst, Corruption3) is broken. Simply swap her into the middle of your opponent's squad, and then kill 4-5 fodder pieces with the force power, and suddenly your opponent has a swarm of Raks in the middle of his squad. What makes Rakghouls balanced is the fact that they can only hit pieces that are adjacent to them, along with their low attack value. With an auto-hit ability (Burst) that hits multiple enemies, it's instantly broken.

I really like her CE, though. I've been wanting to see a CE that grants Charging Fire/Assault to Savage figs for a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:48 am 
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I think rakghoul disease should only work on adjacent enemies.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:31 pm 
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I definitely like the idea of Celeste being able to turn other things into Rakghouls. I might set it up as it's own Special Ability though, and not just Rakghoul Disease. Maybe something like:

"Replaces Attacks, living character within 6 squares takes 40 damage, save 11 reduces to 20. If the character is defeated, you can immediately add a character named Rakghoul to your squad. The new character sets up in a square that character formerly occupied."

Now, I specifically worded that using 'character' instead of 'enemy' in a few places, and leaving out the word target. This would allow you to target your own pieces if you wanted. Might be completely broken though, so would have to play-test it, or at least bounce up her cost significantly to deal with it, as this would basically allow you to turn your own Ugnaughts into Rakghouls whenever you wanted to. But I honestly think something like this would be pretty fun. Perhaps add something to it like "Allies must have a cost of 10 points or greater in order to be affected by this ability", just so it's somewhat balanced. Of course, the other thing to remember would be, that if she uses this ability on her own pieces, the Raks that spawn would be free points, but whatever died in order to spawn them would give victory points to the opponent. And running a piece like this against a Separatist Droid army would be suicide, with little-to-no living pieces to turn into new Rakghouls.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 3:27 pm 
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It should work fine as long as she is only turning people into raks with her melee attacks. So maybe an errata would be needed or you would be very quickly surrounded by her beasts.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:46 pm 
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The force powers all replace her turn so it will be difficult to set up to kill a tonne of fodder against a competent player. Also Rakghoul Disease only affects living enemies, so mouse droids, battle droids, etc.. would not turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:18 pm 
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its Called movement breakers??????? She is fringe..........


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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:05 pm 
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jonnyb815 wrote:
its Called movement breakers??????? She is fringe..........


So when you see Agen Kolar on the board, would you just group all your fodder in one spot on the board? Probably not... :roll:

Most people use Lobot for their fodder nowadays (just look at the regional reports), so you could choose droid fodder which isn't as dangerous for you. In fact I think Kota and Anakin/Jacen Solo are more dangerous in that they can do so much more damage to fodder or commanders with 50 or less health. Sure you have to get a force user killed, but what are felucians for? ;)

If she was able to get a Corruption off she would be down to 2 FP for defense or one Burst... You can build around that, of course, but then you're effectively paying for it in a ghost or a Force battery.

I tried to make a one trick pony here with low to medium damage output. Of course she would do well against a swarm of ewoks or rodian brutes, but so would a squad of Rakghouls, or Agen Kolar for that matter... But what about Yobuck, Swoopbikes, GMLS, Droids, or the Vong? They wouldn't have much trouble with her... nor would they have much trouble with the swarms...

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:15 pm 
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I don't think the danger is so much in her ability to destroy hordes of fodder...I agree that Yobuck/Lancer is probably the most effective in that role. The danger is that she turns those destroyed fodder pieces into a swarm of 0-pt Rakghouls, which are suddenly swarming your entire squad. Losing 4-5 fodder pieces really isn't a big deal, but suddenly having to deal with 4-5 new Rakghouls, who start right in the middle of your squad...that's where the abuse/brokenness lies. Swarms have been dead for a long time, but almost every squad has a good number of fodder pieces.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:13 am 
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I think that you're missing my point that there are many counter abilities for this character and Rakghoul Disease (namely high hit points, Yslarimi, Force Defense, Force Immunity, Droid and Mounted weapon).

And there would be a multitude of squads that could take it down even in it's most powerful state. Therefore, I don't think that it's "broken" in the sense that GOWK was.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:08 pm 
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I never said it was as broken as GOWK was. What I did say was that turning your opponent's small fodder (Ugs, Caamasis, Jawas, etc) into your own 0-pt Raks is broken. Yobuck hurts those squads a lot by killing those pieces...but he doesn't replace those defeated pieces with more of his own...that difference is the reason I'm saying it's broken. I like the idea of Celeste creating Rakghouls (1 new Rak/round seems fine)...but allowing her with one activation to turn a group of your ugs into a group of her Raks is a bit extreme.

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:13 pm 
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thereisnotry wrote:
I never said it was as broken as GOWK was. What I did say was that turning your opponent's small fodder (Ugs, Caamasis, Jawas, etc) into your own 0-pt Raks is broken. Yobuck hurts those squads a lot by killing those pieces...but he doesn't replace those defeated pieces with more of his own...that difference is the reason I'm saying it's broken. I like the idea of Celeste creating Rakghouls (1 new Rak/round seems fine)...but allowing her with one activation to turn a group of your ugs into a group of her Raks is a bit extreme.


This is why I suggested making her Rakghoul creation ability something completely different from the standard Rakghoul Disease. Technically, and canonically, speaking, she didn't create Raks the same way that Raks created other Raks. So she wouldn't create a new Rak by killing something with her Lightsaber. It should be like a 'Touch' ability that replaces Attacks or something. That's why I mentioned the 40 damage, save 11 down to 20, and works on all living characters, not just enemies. Then you could kill your own pieces for 2-3 rounds at the beginning of the game, but it causes you to have to replace your turn. And honestly, Raks are not THAT strong in HP or Defense, so most opponents would be able to kill them. And if you're using Celeste and several Ugs or whatever to turn into Raks, then you're talking 60-70 points of your squad, where Celeste is going to be non-usable for the first 2-3 rounds at least. Plus, you're giving your opponent points.

Or, you make the new ability work slightly different from standard Rak Disease, such that any Raks that Celeste creates actually count for points. Could get confusing compared to Raks that don't count for points on the board, but that's not THAT different from how confusing it can get with the current situation (thus why I'm glad I have 2 of the pink Promo ones, as I use those to keep things straight, lol).

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 Post subject: Re: Celeste Morne
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:14 pm 
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Thanks for the criticism guys, I'll take another look at the stats today and update a bit later...

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