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 Post subject: Re: Ko Sai, Clone Master
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:36 pm 
Third Jedi from the Left
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caledre wrote:
I really don't like the ability to remove 'unique,' but it seems like I'll be the only one. For Ko Sai I'd like to see him have Immediate Reserves: Clone Troopers or something.


What don't you like about removing "unique" in one instance? In terms of game mechanics, there are alot of abilities or powers that bend the rules of the game. Unique is just another rule to be bent.

Timothy Zahn did it and created the unforgetable "Luuke Skywalker" clone! So it's obviously genius!


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 Post subject: Re: Ko Sai, Clone Master
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:13 pm 
Unnamed Wookiee
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"What don't you like about removing "unique" in one instance? In terms of game mechanics, there are alot of abilities or powers that bend the rules of the game. Unique is just another rule to be bent.

Timothy Zahn did it and created the unforgetable 'Luuke Skywalker' clone! So it's obviously genius!"

Yeah genius isn't the word I'd use... :roll:

It just seems kinda lame to take away 'unique.' I think it'd remove a significant check and just wind up being broken. Immediate Clone Reserves makes more sense story-wise. Ko Sai was never called upon to clone Jar Jar for instance, but bringing in 30 points of ARC troopers, that'd be cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Ko Sai, Clone Master
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:08 am 
Third Jedi from the Left
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caledre wrote:
It just seems kinda lame to take away 'unique.' I think it'd remove a significant check and just wind up being broken. Immediate Clone Reserves makes more sense story-wise. Ko Sai was never called upon to clone Jar Jar for instance, but bringing in 30 points of ARC troopers, that'd be cool.


Well, I can definitely see where you're coming from, and I agree that by altering the Unique rule it opens up lots of possibilites, but whether it's good, bad or lame depends on the situation. How many broken, competitive teams have you played that leverage some aspect of the game? Have you ever faced Darth Sidious using Pawn of the Dark Side on an IG Lancer Droid, giving it a crazy amount of strafe attacks over virtually the entire map? Or have you ever faced Boba Fett, Bounty hunter paired with 4 or more Bothan Nobles, which allows you to make 10 twin attacks per round with one of the most undercosted figures in the game? My point is there are plenty of elements already active in the game that allow people to take advantage competitively.

I also grant that Ko Sai never cloned anything other than Jango, at least as far as we'll ever know. But haven't you ever wanted to run two of a character? This may be the only "in-game" way to do it, without some kind of house rule. The important thing here is to limit it so that it can't be used to make the game no longer fun, to word it so it keeps itself in check.

We made a "Spaarti Cloning Cylinder" (which can be found here) that functions in a way similar to what you're suggesting, but instead of clones it spits out storm troopers and it's Imperial. We limited the faction because we felt that the Imperial faction needed a boost, but it could always be given Affinity for a Republic squad. We might need to revisit the wording of the SA to limit it to Stormtroopers and Clone Troopers.

Lastly, while I agree that there are other possibilities for this character, we're working to add depth to SWM in general. If we want reserves, we can always play Supreme Chancellor Palpatine or Mon Mothma. But if we want to play two Darth Vaders?!

DC


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 Post subject: Re: Ko Sai, Clone Master
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:48 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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"But haven't you ever wanted to run two of a character? "

-No.

"Lastly, while I agree that there are other possibilities for this character, we're working to add depth to SWM in general. If we want reserves, we can always play Supreme Chancellor Palpatine or Mon Mothma. But if we want to play two Darth Vaders?!"

-Again, I don't get why somebody would ever want to run two of the same character. When I play with friends, we coordinate so two Vaders or two Boba Fetts or two Obi Wans aren't even in the same skirmish. But, like I said, it's probably just my preference. I don't really like swarm squads, and the ability doesn't ring true to the character of Ko Sai for me. The Spaarti Cylinder seems more suited to an ability like this, but again, the removal of 'unique' doesn't appeal to me because it opens up characters who are restricted from certain CE's to suddenly getting them. The fact that she's fringe and can go anywhere makes her even more broken IMO (though to be fair it does make sense because she was never affiliated with the Republic officially).


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 Post subject: Re: Ko Sai, Clone Master
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:10 am 
Master of the Order
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Well, the nice thing caledre, is that DarthChaos here is building custom stats for his local play group. If you don't like it, then it doesn't matter to you. So, if you have constructive criticism about the piece itself, and the direction DC is already taking it, then that's great. But otherwise, there's no need to endlessly argue about one person likes and somebody else doesn't like. ;)

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Mand'alor
"You either die a hero, or you live to see yourself become the villain."
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 Post subject: Re: Ko Sai, Clone Master
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:13 am 
Unnamed Wookiee
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Point taken.


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