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 Post subject: Beginner needing some help
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:54 am 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
Unnamed Stormtrooper

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:29 pm
Posts: 8
Kind of a weird question, but are there any resources out there for someone looking to start making custom figures? I found Ironlightsaber's guide on Wizards, and I have some experience with wargaming miniatures, so I'm okay on the model front (. . . for now).

What I'm looking for are tips/guidelines/strategies/etc for making custom stats and abilities. I know a lot of it comes down to experience, and knowing how to balance everything out, but a starting point of reference would be nice.

I imagine that most people start off with a concept, but then do they create the stats and SAs, then try to balance that out with the cost? Or do people aim for a point range (low cost, mid cost, high, etc), and make sure the stats aren't too broken for that range?

Coming up with SAs seems (relatively) simple, but it's balancing those with the stats and the cost that seems daunting.

From a stats perspective, what is a HP/Cost ratio that people start off with? 10HP/5pts? What's considered a high/low attack/defense value for melee/non-melee?

I'm not quite sure if I should start off with just the stats and the cost, then adjust them for the SAs I want to use, or figure out how much a mini should cost based on the SAs and then figure out the stats accordingly.

To give you an idea of what style of mini we're trying to make, we think that Zayne is a really well designed mini. Not overpowered or even overly competitive, but interesting and flavorful. He endeared himself to us in a game when he tried to take on Mara Jade, Jedi. He almost took her out by falling on her face, but then did himself in by falling on his lightsaber. He feels like a character as opposed to a collection of stats and abilities.

On the flip side, the Kol Skywalker from JA does very little for us. Efficient, yes, but lacking in flavor for us.

Any thoughts and ideas are much appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Beginner needing some help
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:58 pm 
Warmaster
Warmaster

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:55 am
Posts: 691
I haven't designed any custom stats in a while, but when I do, I take aim at a 'playability goal' I set in my mind for the character. Cost usually happens last, and is constantly adjusted as I tweak the character. I usually go to Wookiepedia and read as much on the character as possible before starting.

Take for example a character like Plo Koon. Some interesting 'facts' about him indicate that he was an excellent hand-to-hand combatant, lightsaber swordsman (practicing Form V: Shien) and pilot. Also, he used the force more "offensively" than defensively at times which some said skirted the dark side.

Now we have a Plo Koon from CS:

Plo Koon 28 points
HP: 110
Def: 19
Atk: 13
Dam: 20

Special Abilities
Unique; Melee Attack;

Force Powers
Force Strike (Force 1. Range 6; 30 damage to 1 enemy Droid.)
Lightsaber Precision

At this point, a pretty unremarkable piece. Although, would probably be well balanced and costed if he simply had Double Attack as well.

But in my mind, Plo Koon was a Jedi Master and High General during the Clone Wars, so I'd like to see a kick-ass version of him. Now, there are a couple character points I'd like to hit with a Plo Koon- one- he was a kick-ass fighter. Two- he used the force to do damage. Three- should he be a commander? Let's see how it plays out.

let's start with a base model by upgrading the CS version a bit:

High General Plo Koon
Republic
HP: 120 <- good base, but depending on how things play out with SA's and FP's, might go up to 130 to prevent the dreaded MJJ LS Assault...
Def: 21 <- again, may go down if he doesn't end up being a commander. Gotta remember all the great def bosting CE's the Republic has these days...
Atk: 14 <- same idea as def, this is a nice Atk value on a Commander, but might be too high for a follower.
Dam: 20 <- pretty standard.

Now on to SA's. Unique, Melee Attack and Double Attack are pretty standard, let's start there.

So we're at the point where we should try and decide the ultimate focus of the character. I'd like to make him a commander because I like to make commanders a bit beefier due to the fact that they are rarely able to benefit from commander effects.

We already have a Djem So style which is a Form V variant, but I'd like to create a Shien variant. Wookiepedia states that Shien was:
- The Perserverance Form, adapted to guarding against blaster fire and enemy strikes without compromising one's own ability to counterattack. However, the style was weaker against a single opponent.

So how about something like this:

Shien Style (Whenever this character is hit by an adjacent attack, and there is more than one enemy within 6 squares, roll a save of 11. If successful, reduce the damage taken by 10 and make one immediate attack against that attacker.)

All the elements are there, weak against single opponents, but able to perservere and counter attack against characters with blasters or melee opponents. This also gives the flavor of being an excellent combatant, although there are probably a couple other tweaks we could give him in that regard. Mighty Swing, Deadly Attack, Rend +20, Flurry Attack are all good ideas.

Next iteration:

High General Plo Koon
Republic
HP: 120
Def: 21
Atk: 14
Dam: 20

Special Abilities
Unique; Melee Attack; Double Attack; Deadly Attack;
Shien Style (Whenever this character is hit by an adjacent attack, and there is more than one enemy within 6 squares, roll a save of 11. If successful, reduce the damage taken by 10 and make one immediate attack against that attacker.)

Now on to force powers. Not a whole lot of Republic pieces have renewal... unfortunately, but let's see what he looks like with it and a few powers.

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1
Levitation 1 <- Wookiepedia states this was one of his specialties, and since it is already in the game, no need to reinvent the wheel.
Force Push 2
Lightsaber Reflect (Force 2. When hit by a non-melee attack, take no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes the prevented damge, save 11.)

...so he has a couple telekinetic abilities and another Shien complimenting ability in Reflect. I think he should remain a bit weaker to single melee opponents, so no Block or LS Defense.

What about his version of Force Lightning?

How about this:

Electric Judgement (Force 1. Replaces attacks; range 6: 20 Damage to target. Non-living characters are considered activated, save 11.)

Pretty standard and gives it a bit of flavour against non-living enemies as an homage to his CS version.

Now what about a CE? Do we want to help followers, characters with Order 66 or all allies? Personally, I've always wanted to see Clone Troopers get beefed up a bit.

Commander Effect
Clone trooper followers within 6 squares gain Evade and +6 Attack.
This makes the trooper variants a bit more playable. (Clone Trooper on Gelgarub, etc)

Now, lets see what he looks like all together.

High General Plo Koon
Republic
HP: 120
Def: 21
Atk: 14
Dam: 20

Special Abilities
Unique; Melee Attack; Double Attack; Deadly Attack;
Shien Style (Whenever this character is hit by an adjacent attack, and there is more than one enemy within 6 squares, roll a save of 11. If successful, reduce the damage taken by 10 and make one immediate attack against that attacker.)

Force Powers
Force 2. Force Renewal 1
Levitation 1
Force Push 2
Lightsaber Reflect (Force 2. When hit by a non-melee attack, take no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes the prevented damge, save 11.)
Electric Judgement (Force 1. Replaces attacks; range 6: 20 Damage to target. Non-living characters are considered activated, save 11.)

Commander Effect
Clone trooper followers within 6 squares gain Evade and +6 Attack.

Looking this character over, he's not overly offensive, nor is he overly defensive. He'll stay alive for a while, put out some damage and has a nifty bag of tricks IMO. Probably looking at a piece in the 50's for cost. I'd like to keep him to low 50's though so I'm going to remove Renewal and give him 5 starting Force instead to take away a bit of re-roll power, add 10 HP and tweak Electric Judgement a bit to affect Cyborgs as well.

High General Plo Koon 53 points
Republic
HP: 130
Def: 21
Atk: 14
Dam: 20

Special Abilities
Unique; Melee Attack; Double Attack; Deadly Attack;
Shien Style (Whenever this character is hit by an adjacent attack, and there is more than one enemy within 6 squares, roll a save of 11. If successful, reduce the damage taken by 10 and make one immediate attack against that attacker.)

Force Powers
Force 5
Levitation 1
Force Push 2
Lightsaber Reflect (Force 2. When hit by a non-melee attack, take no damage with a save of 11 and the attacker takes the prevented damge, save 11.)
Electric Judgement (Force 1. Replaces attacks; range 6: 20 Damage to target. Non-living characters and Droids are considered activated, save 11.)

Commander Effect
Clone trooper followers within 6 squares gain Evade and +6 Attack.


So in the end, I settled in on a cost of 53. Slightly more than General Secura, but he gains a bit of HP, and Shien Style which I think adds about another 40 HP or so depending on how you roll.

Hope that helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginner needing some help
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:36 pm 
Unnamed Stormtrooper
Unnamed Stormtrooper

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:29 pm
Posts: 8
Wow, thanks for that. The walkthrough really helps with getting an idea as to how to go about creating a mini.

I've going through Wookiepedia getting a feel for various aspects of the universe. I'm also going to reread a few of the novels and try to make some minis while I'm actually going through them.

Out of curiosity, how did you decide on the commander effect? I'm not that familiar with Plo Koon, so I'm not sure what kind of general was. Was it an ability you created from a technical perspective, or was it a translation of some of his traits as a general in the lore and mythos?


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 Post subject: Re: Beginner needing some help
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:52 pm 
Warmaster
Warmaster

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:55 am
Posts: 691
Womby wrote:
Wow, thanks for that. The walkthrough really helps with getting an idea as to how to go about creating a mini.

I've going through Wookiepedia getting a feel for various aspects of the universe. I'm also going to reread a few of the novels and try to make some minis while I'm actually going through them.

Out of curiosity, how did you decide on the commander effect? I'm not that familiar with Plo Koon, so I'm not sure what kind of general was. Was it an ability you created from a technical perspective, or was it a translation of some of his traits as a general in the lore and mythos?


Just something that I thought might be fun for Clone Trooper squads. I find it's kind of fun to do that so that theme squads can have some synergy and be competitive. Often times, making CE's affect ALL followers or allies can actually take away from your squad building options because it can create a situation where you end up with too many commanders boosting only 1 or two figs.


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